Are we all truly selfish in everything we do?

Been thinking philsophically here, let's see what you think.

Basically, is there any completely selfless act possible? Standing up for old people on the bus to let them sit, for example, - would we do it if it didn't make us feel better about ourselves? Absolutely everything that you do, you do it because you want to. Somebody said what about having to decide whether you die or somebody you love had to die. If you chose to have yourself killed instead, why would you actually be doing this? Yes, technically it is selfless because you are destroying yourself to save somebody else. But the reason why you would do this? Is it not because you don't want to see the person you love suffer, is it not because you don't want that person to die - is it not fundamentally about what we want and not other people?

Therefore, do we all just follow what we want to do? Aren't we just slaves to what we want? Do we actually have free will?

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Been thinking philsophically here, let's see what you think.

Basically, is there any completely selfless act possible? Standing up for old people on the bus to let them sit, for example, - would we do it if it didn't make us feel better about ourselves? Absolutely everything that you do, you do it because you want to. Somebody said what about having to decide whether you die or somebody you love had to die. If you chose to have yourself killed instead, why would you actually be doing this? Yes, technically it is selfless because you are destroying yourself to save somebody else. But the reason why you would do this? Is it not because you don't want to see the person you love suffer, is it not because you don't want that person to die - is it not fundamentally about what we want and not other people?

Therefore, do we all just follow what we want to do? Aren't we just slaves to what we want? Do we actually have free will?

You should try reading 'The selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins - he covers the issue of altruistic actions - truly selfless acts.
His arguement is, is that there is no such thing, since on some genetic level you are helping yourself, or your genes.
For example, saving a loved one, such as a child or a sibling, ensures your genes carry on existing - even saving (for example) a complete stranger from drowning could be viewed that way - he said it's entirely possible that in that split second before you act, on a genetic level your body is able to asses whether or not that person is in someway distantly related to you, and by saving them you would be helping your genetic code to carry on.

[Angua]

I think where free will comes in to the equasion is the ability to fit what we want around other peoples wants and the methods we use. There are those that will ride roughshod over others and reach their goal not caring whether they are liked or not, and perhaps having a very narrow life as a result. And those who will consider others because they want to be liked but will perhaps not reach their goals and have a richer life as a result.

[Pia]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Are we all truly selfish in everything we do?

I think so... Every human, mammal, insect animal etc is too..

[marky]

If a person with a gun gave me the choice who was to die between myself and a person i didnt know, i would choose myself, because i couldnt sentence the other person

[Pia]

Originally Posted by marky

If a person with a gun gave me the choice who was to die between myself and a person i didnt know, i would choose myself, because i couldnt sentence the other person

I would let the other person die. Would the other person die for you?

Anyway i would, mainly for my son because i wouldnt like him to grow up without me..

[marky]

Originally Posted by Pia

I would let the other person die. Would the other person die for you?

Anyway i would, mainly for my son because i wouldnt like him to grow up without me..

I dont care what the other person would or would not do, its what i would do.

[Jon M]

Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey

even saving (for example) a complete stranger from drowning could be viewed that way - he said it's entirely possible that in that split second before you act, on a genetic level your body is able to asses whether or not that person is in someway distantly related to you, and by saving them you would be helping your genetic code to carry on.

Granted I'm not Mr.Dawkins number one fan, but that is just beyond funny.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Been thinking philsophically here, let's see what you think.

Basically, is there any completely selfless act possible?

Well, for me, giving blood is completely unselfish because I get nothing from it (apart from a cup of orange squash and some Bourbon biscuits! )

I have no *reason* to give blood, no benefit accrues to me, but I do it because it will help others.

[Pia]

Then again, i think the circumstances would change my thoughts anyhow- i suppose its never a clear cut answer.
For example- what if the other person was a child? Or your mother?
I hope nobody i know will ever been in that position anyhow..

Originally Posted by marky

If a person with a gun gave me the choice who was to die between myself and a person i didnt know, i would choose myself, because i couldnt sentence the other person

Not me I'm afraid, I would choose the other person without much hesitation, and if this were ever to really happen, most people would, whatever they might say atm. Self preservation .......

Originally Posted by Graham

Well, for me, giving blood is completely unselfish because I get nothing from it (apart from a cup of orange squash and some Bourbon biscuits! )

I have no *reason* to give blood, no benefit accrues to me, but I do it because it will help others.

There must be some reason. Does it make you feel better about yourself knowing you have given blood?

[Jon M]

Time to be more constructive than my last post...

It's impossible for any of us to be objective over this subject, because any stance you take on the origin or source of life, morality, good or evil will affect whether you think true selflessness is possible.

Personally, I'm totally unashamed to say that I think it very much IS possible and that my bias is that I believe that we all have the capacity to do both good and evil, to be selfish and unselfish.

It's up to everyone to decide for themselves what the truth about our world and universe is and to act upon that conviction.

what a difficult question?

one answer is no, but ..

another is yes, but...

so without a clear answer, is the thread doomed to discussion of the buts? - bummer

[danielf]

I would think that generally, people are selfish in that they do things because they get some gain from it or because it makes them feel good (and that includes giving blood, Graham). If however someone in a combat situation takes a bullet for his mate that has wife and kids, and that is considered selfish because the person taking the bullet does not want the other bloke's kids and wife to suffer rather than not wanting him to die, I think we're just changing the definition of selfishness.