Blair 'powerless over dentists'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4293574.stm

Tony Blair has admitted he is powerless to increase access to NHS dentistry.

The government is increasing training places by a quarter and introducing a new contract to improve access - only half the population is registered.

But in an interview on BBC Breakfast News, the prime minister said there was no way of forcing dentists to do NHS work instead of private.

More than a third of English dentists' work is carried out privately - up from about a tenth 15 years ago.

Mr Blair blamed the rise on a new contract introduced in 1990 which effectively increased workload without a rise in pay.

The admission comes six years after the prime minister pledged to give everyone access to NHS dentistry within two years.

Maybe we should do what we presently do with trainee teaching students and offer incentives such as no tuition fees etc in return for at least 10 years as NHS dentist as suggested in one readers reply to the article?Or allow those of us who can't get NHS dental treatment because of a lack of NHS dentists to do what we can presently do with certain operations that the NHS can't keep up with and tender out to private treatment dentists?

Any other suggestions we can offer to Tony?Please present them here or to the article in the link.

[basa]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Maybe we should do what we presently do with trainee teaching students and offer incentives such as no tuition fees etc in return for at least 10 years as NHS dentist as suggested in one readers reply to the article?Or allow those of us who can't get NHS dental treatment because of a lack of NHS dentists to do what we can presently do with certain operations that the NHS can't keep up with and tender out to private treatment dentists?

Any other suggestions we can offer to Tony?Please present them here or to the article in the link.

Actually Incog, that is an excellent idea, but only if the new dentists are mentored by an experienced hand.

Our (NHS) dentist is obviously quite new to the game and is useless. I've never had so much trouble with my teeth since he got his hands on them !!

I actually find it weird that the human body can be divided up into bits which are treated differently as far as free NHS treatment goes. Feet, teeth, eyes and ears are all chargeable to the patient at point of treatment, whereas most everything else is free ??

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Any other suggestions we can offer to Tony?Please present them here or to the article in the link.

Pay dentists more?

The NHS seems to think that they can pay a healthcare provider less just because it's the NHS. The dentists realised that they could make more money for the same (or less) work privately.
I did a lot of work for the NHS for a few years......they payed me about 35% less than my normal rate (and my normal rate was very reasonable) while increasing my levels of paperwork by about 200% .
In addition, I was only allowed to give each patient 6 treatments (many need far more)--the NHS can be quite restrictive in that way--something that limits the effectiveness of nhs physiotherapy.
So what you have is a system that underpays it's staff whilst simultaneously causing them extra work and professionally frustrating them.
You can start to see why the dentists have decided to stick two fingers up at the NHS......

[punky]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Maybe we should do what we presently do with trainee teaching students and offer incentives such as no tuition fees etc in return for at least 10 years as NHS dentist as suggested in one readers reply to the article

?Or allow those of us who can't get NHS dental treatment because of a lack of NHS dentists to do what we can presently do with certain operations that the NHS can't keep up with and tender out to private treatment dentists?

I think those are excellent suggestions.

Offering people more money to work to compete with private healthcare would be tough for the government to afford. Maybe they can allow dentists to work tax free, which is like giving them a payrise without having to spend more money. The deficit in wages can shuffled around internally, or cancelled out with budget cuts in an area less important than health care.

Thanx for the insight into the NHS Rammy Shows you how great socialised health care really is If you aren't cured after 6 treatments, is that it? You suffer for the rest of your life?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by punky

If you aren't cured after 6 treatments, is that it? You suffer for the rest of your life?

Thats when you go private!

Originally Posted by punky

Shows you how great socialised health care really is

What? Private medical insurance is famous for its maximum treatment limits! The ambulance drives both ways, you know. Plenty of people with chronic conditions eventually have no option but to revert to the NHS when their private cover decides they are eating too much of their profit.

Surely this situation is caused by the private sector. If the NHS raises pay, so will the private sector, so then we'll have spiralling costs but the same problem. There's only one solution I can see, but it'll upset the free marketeers!

[MovedGoalPosts]

I think Ramrod's post on paperwork is quite telling. Even if fees can be more closely aligned between the two sectors the extra paperwork would be a deal breaker. You either employ someone to do it for you, or do it yourself, either way there is a cost iincurred affecting earnings.

I saw a TV report only a few days ago that the government was looking to change the payment system. It appears the Dental Council and Government are miles apart on the way forward. A large part of that is what they will pay for, which to the dentists is too much a drill and fill mentality, rather than a more professional modern preventative care.

[NitroNutter]

If the government failed to deliver a promise/ pledge then are they not earning under false pretences, the goods his party offers are not standing up to be fit for the purpose intended. Of course this is nothing new to government and is not limited to Labour

Perhaps the best way is to do some self capping of your inflation busting taxes to help pay for the private treatment, as the NHS dentist pledge you have allready paid for cannot and is unlikely to ever be delivered.

If we as a nation continue to accept without redress the continual abuse of our tolerant nature, we may find in the near future we will lose completely the capability to bring about any redress ever.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Surely this situation is caused by the private sector. If the NHS raises pay, so will the private sector, so then we'll have spiralling costs but the same problem.

I don't think that would be the case. My fees are what they are irrespective of what the NHS would pay me. Private fees seem to be set by the level of education behind them......not the amount that the NHS is willing to pay for them.

[Salu]

Isn't it just down to money and opportunity?

If you earnt £50,000 being a dentist but could earn £100,00 0 by going private what would you do?

Embrace the ethos of the NHS and say no to the money or gaze into the future and see greater financial security?

Apply that to your own job....

Love this comment btw....

The government took away my dentist and now I have no teeth, I have to drink everything through a straw and it's DISGUSTING.
Anthony Bentley, Norwich

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Chris T

What? Private medical insurance is famous for its maximum treatment limits! The ambulance drives both ways, you know. Plenty of people with chronic conditions eventually have no option but to revert to the NHS when their private cover decides they are eating too much of their profit.

and plenty don't, this is more prevelant in personal, not corporate private medical cover. The biggest problem I have found this has brought for people is job mobility. I had former colleague who's wife was being treated privately for cancer, the job he had signed up for was no longer there, and he certainly was not enjoying his current role, but was unable to look for alternate employment as the new employers private medical cover would not take on his wife as now there was a pre-exisiting medical condition.

NHS dentistry is a prime example of what is wrong with the Labour governments 3rd way, not enough tax taken to pay the dentists privately, yet sufficient taken that we all object to having to pay privately for something our taxes should pay for.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by basa

Actually Incog, that is an excellent idea, but only if the new dentists are mentored by an experienced hand.

Our (NHS) dentist is obviously quite new to the game and is useless. I've never had so much trouble with my teeth since he got his hands on them !!

I actually find it weird that the human body can be divided up into bits which are treated differently as far as free NHS treatment goes. Feet, teeth, eyes and ears are all chargeable to the patient at point of treatment, whereas most everything else is free ??

Ears are only an extra expense if you want a "posh" hearing aid. I collect my "free" one in a couple of weeks. Eyes get free glasses/checks for children and free tests for those with certain types of family eye problems over 40. There is a charge for treatment if your Doctor gives you a prescription.

The only NHS Dentist I have met who is happy in his work is salaried and had all his equipment provided by the local PCT (he only treats children who have been referred to him, emergencies and those on benefits (usually pensioners) who cannot get treatment elsewhere and are in need of immediate/ongoing treatment).

Prevention (early signs of tooth decay) is much better than a cure. The only place we can get our children into at the moment is an emergency centre.

Yet i pay my NI loyally and without fail

[jinxsi]

Hi all
I am a dentist <duck>
and I have written a web page in an attempt to put a dentist view on the current intolerable situation. I would appreciate feedback from others. How does it read? does it sound snotty and arrogant? what other questions should I put in the questions and answers?

This page is a work in progress and has only been up a few days.

If you have time please read it and give me feedback

The page is accessed by using the <NHS dentistry - whats happening?> link on the front page at
www.simonjenkins.co.uk

regards
Simon Jenkins