50M : Poor VM Connection, strange TBB quality monitor etc..

[Rashboots]

This thread is really for thenry after asking some questions about my tbb graph!
At the moment my internet SEEMS fine, when it comes to downloading, my speed/ping tests also seem spot on, but something is most definitely wrong with my think broadband graph!

Live graph:



Connection stats:




Can you, or anyone else, shed some light on what's wrong with my connection that's showing such heavy downstream load on the tbb graph?

Thanks in advance

[thenry]

just for me

as mentioned the doubles ETA for the area you live in is around May 2013. you'll probably be sent a senior tech by the CEOs office if you havent already had 1 out. The tech wont be able to cure it.

Power levels are fine but there wouldnt be harm in asking the tech to move you at the cab to lower the upstream levels. He'll then have to probably stick an FP attenuator on or change it for higher attenuation.

I think I remember you said infinity wasn't available but I'm sure its enabled in Stockton-on-Tees, that is where you live?

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

have you doubled checked the ping monitor IP is correct?

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

post up actual day results not just the live graph in a thread of your own on the VM community forum marking each generated day link with dates. as well as all the other stats. staff members on there might be able to get networks on it.

[Sephiroth]

Well, the TBB graph isn't showing heavy downstream activity at all. You can't easily distinguish between DS and US activity on the TBB graph unless it's showing packet loss (red). Then it's either updtream congestion or upstream noise.

What background process on your equipment could be punting anything over the internet? Or are your systems entirely quiet over night?

The yellow doesn't matter as much as the blue.

I recommend you download and use Jack Dinn's speed test (JDAST). It'll kick in every hour (or whatever interval you set), keeps records and makes a very useful comparison for correlation against TBB.

[Rashboots]

Originally Posted by thenry

just for me

as mentioned the doubles ETA for the area you live in is around May 2013. you'll probably be sent a senior tech by the CEOs office if you havent already had 1 out. The tech wont be able to cure it.

Power levels are fine but there wouldnt be harm in asking the tech to move you at the cab to lower the upstream levels. He'll then have to probably stick an FP attenuator on or change it for higher attenuation.

I think I remember you said infinity wasn't available but I'm sure its enabled in Stockton-on-Tees, that is where you live?

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

have you doubled checked the ping monitor IP is correct?

We've had a principal technician attend who was adamant there was something wrong at the cab last time he was here. Unfortunately he's on annual leave at the minute so I can't find out if anything has been escalated yet.

I'll mention moving me at the cab when he's back, if this makes any difference?

We've had so many issues lately with VM and our connection that they've tried all sorts. It's only been like this since August though when our connection randomly went off for 10 days and no one could tell me what was wrong, ever since then we've had issues with lag and high downstream power levels along with downstream channels dropping and leaving me with only one.

My friend suggested asking to be moved onto another docsis to see if this alleviates any issues, is this as you suggested, moving me at the cab, or is this different altogether?

I'm still concerned about the large yellow part, however as it doesn't appear to be affecting my internet, should I really be concerned, or just ignore the graph for now?

[thenry]

Seph will be able to assist you better.

[Rashboots]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Well, the TBB graph isn't showing heavy downstream activity at all. You can't easily distinguish between DS and US activity on the TBB graph unless it's showing packet loss (red). Then it's either updtream congestion or upstream noise.

What background process on your equipment could be punting anything over the internet? Or are your systems entirely quiet over night?

The yellow doesn't matter as much as the blue.

I recommend you download and use Jack Dinn's speed test (JDAST). It'll kick in every hour (or whatever interval you set), keeps records and makes a very useful comparison for correlation against TBB.

Hi Sephiroth.

Our systems are entirely quiet over night. Myself and my boyfriend are out during the day and the internet is only really used from 6pm - 11pm then everything (apart from the router) is shut off.

I will definitely download JDAST, I'll put this on the other half's laptop as his is constantly wired and mine is not.

Weirdly though, whenever we get an engineer visit, it's fine after they leave (see below), then the yellow starts to increase (see second image)

26th - Engineer left my house at 6.30pm
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

27th
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

Originally Posted by thenry

Seph will be able to assist you better.

Thank you for your help though

[thenry]

the moving at the cab and docsis move are unrelated. if you was to be moved to docsis 1.1 then youll be downgraded to 10 or 20 meg.

[Rashboots]

Ooh er. The other half wouldn't be so happy about that. He's the only reason we're still with VM, the thought of switching to anything other than 60mb brings him out in a cold sweat

[Sephiroth]

TH might be giving me too much credit!

The yellow means the maximum ping time recorded. It can be just one ping in an hour, but it'll show like that. However, if the blue bit, the average ping, follows the yellow, then the yellow is regular as a high.

Into the mix comes the peak time added activity in your network segment. This will produce increased blue and yellow.

The high yellow is abnormal though. What did the engineer say he'd done? Did he actually think he'd fixed it? If everything's off except the SH, what could the SH be putting out or doing? Have you tried turning the Firewall off for a while and using Windows firewall in your PCs?

Incidentally the reason why you can get these strange graphs but download speed seems unaffected is that the pings are at low priority as compared with TCP or UDP network traffic that you'd be generating/receiving.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by Rashboots

Ooh er. The other half wouldn't be so happy about that. He's the only reason we're still with VM, the thought of switching to anything other than 60mb brings him out in a cold sweat

Have you checked what type of speeds you'd get with FTTC? you may even get higher speeds if you're close enough to the street cab...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Zee

Have you checked what type of speeds you'd get with FTTC? you may even get higher speeds if you're close enough to the street cab...

Zee - what are you on about? Incidentally, VM is FTTC.

This is about trying to explain the TBB graphs. There appears to be no detriment to the OP's VM service.

[Rashboots]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

TH might be giving me too much credit!

The yellow means the maximum ping time recorded. It can be just one ping in an hour, but it'll show like that. However, if the blue bit, the average ping, follows the yellow, then the yellow is regular as a high.

Into the mix comes the peak time added activity in your network segment. This will produce increased blue and yellow.

The high yellow is abnormal though. What did the engineer say he'd done? Did he actually think he'd fixed it? If everything's off except the SH, what could the SH be putting out or doing? Have you tried turning the Firewall off for a while and using Windows firewall in your PCs?

Incidentally the reason why you can get these strange graphs but download speed seems unaffected is that the pings are at low priority as compared with TCP or UDP network traffic that you'd be generating/receiving.

I'll try to give you a brief rundown of everything they've done (with graphs for reference):

We didn't have an internet connection for 10 days, there was a fault in my area but it shouldn't have kicked me off completely, no one could tell me what was wrong though or when i'd be back online which is why I emailed 3 directors in the hope that it would get sorted.

They sent an engineer out, he said there was no problems with my house sending a 'signal' to the cab across the road (its opposite my house) it was the return path that had the issue. He upped my power levels really high and put an attenuator (spelling??) on my box which brought the power levels down inside the house. This worked and we were back online, but had mega issues with speed, not being able to load web pages etc.

This is my connection straight after they got us back online, not a problem in sight really:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Everything was ok until the middle of October, when my graphs started to look like this. Terrible internet again, slow speeds, loads of lag on fifa, web pages not loading etc:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Another engineer came out, said he couldn't see anything that was wrong but swapped the superhub over.

The internet was fine for a day:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Then it stayed like this for a couple of weeks, really terrible internet connection, slow speeds, loads of lag on FIFA again.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

A principal technician (awesome chap!) came out and said that our power levels were stupidly high, he dropped these and took off the attenuator that the original engineer fitted. He spent a lot of time at the cab and called another engineer to come out. I didn't fully understand what he said, but he said that he believes theres an issue at the cab and has escalated this. He's on holiday until the 3rd December though so I can't get him to come out again and take another look...

After he left the connection was fine, you can see 6pm when he left.
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Then a few days later it was all over the place again, then we had really bad packet loss every day and only had one downstream channel, which they managed to sort from their end, they said the superhub had been configured incorrectly from their end. They still sent out an engineer who confirmed everything was fine.

it IS working fine in terms of speed and pingtests (although we can't test FIFA till payday as my other halfs gold account on the xbox has expired ), but I firmly believe from my think broadband graph that there's an underlying issue here that's causing these bizarre graphs.


This graph is up to date:


This is a BBmax speed test result from a second ago:
Download Speed: 58696 kbps (7337 KB/sec ) Upload Speed: 2892 kbps (361.5 KB/sec )

This is a speedtest.net speed test result from a second ago:


This is the internal VM speedtest result:
Download Speed: 61144 kbps (7643 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2872 kbps (359 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 24 ms
Thu Nov 29 2012 10:27:38 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)


So as you can see... no problems, just a really odd graph!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Rashboots

I'll try to give you a brief rundown of everything they've done (with graphs for reference):

We didn't have an internet connection for 10 days, there was a fault in my area but it shouldn't have kicked me off completely, no one could tell me what was wrong though or when i'd be back online which is why I emailed 3 directors in the hope that it would get sorted.

They sent an engineer out, he said there was no problems with my house sending a 'signal' to the cab across the road (its opposite my house) it was the return path that had the issue. He upped my power levels really high and put an attenuator (spelling??) on my box which brought the power levels down inside the house. This worked and we were back online, but had mega issues with speed, not being able to load web pages etc.
[SEPH]: I think I've hinted in other replies that the upstream is a suspect candidate here.
This is my connection straight after they got us back online, not a problem in sight really:



Everything was ok until the middle of October, when my graphs started to look like this. Terrible internet again, slow speeds, loads of lag on fifa, web pages not loading etc:
[SEPH]: Again, games lag and slow web page loading is an upstream issue.



Another engineer came out, said he couldn't see anything that was wrong but swapped the superhub over.

The internet was fine for a day:
[SEPH]: I can't account for the regularity with which the system was fine for a day!.




Then it stayed like this for a couple of weeks, really terrible internet connection, slow speeds, loads of lag on FIFA again.



A principal technician (awesome chap!) came out and said that our power levels were stupidly high, he dropped these and took off the attenuator that the original engineer fitted. He spent a lot of time at the cab and called another engineer to come out. I didn't fully understand what he said, but he said that he believes theres an issue at the cab and has escalated this. He's on holiday until the 3rd December though so I can't get him to come out again and take another look...
[SEPH]: When you do get his attention again, it's the upstream he needs to look at. Your power levels are ideal at 0 dBmv DS and 40 dBmv upstream. They are also ideal if the downstream rises by the amount that the upstream falls and vice versa, provided you don't go below -4 dBmv on the DS. If they're so out of balance that he has to put you on a low attenuation tap at the cabinet just to get the upstream going but then your downstream power has to be attenuated, then there's likely to be a faulty amplifier in the cabinet across the road. But then other users in your street would have similar issues.


After he left the connection was fine, you can see 6pm when he left.


Then a few days later it was all over the place again, then we had really bad packet loss every day and only had one downstream channel, which they managed to sort from their end, they said the superhub had been configured incorrectly from their end. They still sent out an engineer who confirmed everything was fine.
[SEPH]: One downstream channel is a fault in the infrastructure somewhere. Often in the optical node a few streets away from you. In fact the whole problem could emanate from there.


it IS working fine in terms of speed and pingtests (although we can't test FIFA till payday as my other halfs gold account on the xbox has expired ), but I firmly believe from my think broadband graph that there's an underlying issue here that's causing these bizarre graphs.
[SEPH]: I do recommend JDAST speed test as it runs from your computer and has excellent graphics. You can watch the latency test graphically and it would be a useful check against the TBB graph.



This graph is up to date:


This is a BBmax speed test result from a second ago:
Download Speed: 58696 kbps (7337 KB/sec ) Upload Speed: 2892 kbps (361.5 KB/sec )

This is a speedtest.net speed test result from a second ago:


This is the internal VM speedtest result:
Download Speed: 61144 kbps (7643 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2872 kbps (359 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 24 ms
Thu Nov 29 2012 10:27:38 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)


So as you can see... no problems, just a really odd graph!

[Rashboots]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[SEPH]: I think I've hinted in other replies that the upstream is a suspect candidate here.

You have, which is good that you've mentioned this and the explanation from the first engineer backs this up!

[SEPH]: Again, games lag and slow web page loading is an upstream issue.

Which relates to the above, which is good as it means at least there's an explanation for the horrible games on fifa!

[SEPH]: When you do get his attention again, it's the upstream he needs to look at. Your power levels are ideal at 0 dBmv DS and 40 dBmv upstream. They are also ideal if the downstream rises by the amount that the upstream falls and vice versa, provided you don't go below -4 dBmv on the DS. If they're so out of balance that he has to put you on a low attenuation tap at the cabinet just to get the upstream going but then your downstream power has to be attenuated, then there's likely to be a faulty amplifier in the cabinet across the road. But then other users in your street would have similar issues.

He sent me a text asking me if he wants to ring someone to come out and look as I left him a voicemail when we only had 1 downstream channel. I've told him not to as we're not experiencing any issues as such as we haven't been playing any games to experience the lag (if there is any).

When he is back on Monday i'll give him a call and explain what you've discussed.

[SEPH]: One downstream channel is a fault in the infrastructure somewhere. Often in the optical node a few streets away from you. In fact the whole problem could emanate from there.

That's fixed now, thank heavens, and there was a reported fault because after I'd booked an engineer with VM on the Friday to come out on the Monday, I received an automated phonecall to tell me he had been cancelled because the fault had been fixed... Mine hadn't so I emailed the director again and the CEO office phoned me to re-book it, then they ended up fixing it from their end anyway! I'm just curious now that there may be an underlying issue that needs fixing instead of essentially putting a plaster on the problem.

[SEPH]: Have we seen your hub stats?.

Other than the ones posted at the top of the thread, which ones do you want to see? I'll happily post whatever I can!

-----------

Now a question... Say this is an upstream issue and it relates to the cab (as the PT thought), is this something that is going to be fixed soonish once it's been brought to the attention of someone from VM, or is it likely to go on and on forever until enough people report a problem?

I'm a bit of a battleaxe and I'm pretty sure that I'm the only person on my road who's actively trying to find out what the issue is so it's probably not high on their priority list right now

[Sephiroth]

When I had discrepant stats some months ago, the PT arranged for the cabinet amplifier to be replaced. They are supposed to be "sloped" so as to provide correct downstream power for the frequency range (attenuation is greater per metre for higher frequencies). The upstream power requirement is set by the remote CMTS based on what it needs to set in order to make sense of the data received. In dire circumstances, power rises to the maximum (58 dBmv) and the TBB would then show considerable packet loss. The upstream impairment can be anywhere between you and the first active node (the optical node). Most non-interference upstream impairments in the bit between the home and the cabinet have downstream consequences to (like low power and sometimes poor SNR). You don't have that. So it's likely to be between your tap point and the optical node. But, as I've said before, your neighbours would have that problem too.

You should, if you can, research your neighbours' experience. The fact that you have a PT's attention should be siufficient to get this cleared up.