Jobs / Salaries / Prospects

[Raistlin]

Sorry about the vague title.....wasn't quite sure what to put.....

Ok, I'm thinking about a change of career, preferably to something with more of an IT angle to it.

At the moment I've got overall responsibility for the provision of IT services to about 200 users, basically I manage the local team that look after all of the 1st and 2nd line support. The main Administration is handled elsewhere on the site.
I'm part of the business management team where I work, so I'm looking after all sorts of different stuff (agreements with our customers, liasing with outside agencies, disaster recovery plans, business planning etc).
I've also been quite heavily involved in training, and developing training schedules for all sorts of things.

The rub is that, although I've got a lot of good knowledge/experience, I've got no formal qualifications.
I'm about to start studying for a degree which has a large IT slant to it, but that's not even started yet.

What are my chances of finding an IT job that would:

Be somewhere in the South-West (Bristol, Bath, Devon.....) or London,
Pay somewhere in the region of £30k p/a,
Be with an employer who is willing to cover the cost of my degree (or other training to achieve a recognised qualification)?

I know I'm asking the Earth, and I know that there are plenty of job search type sites out there - the problem is that everything that I've seen either asks for masses of qualifications/experience that I just don't have or has a starting salary so low that I wouldn't even be able to afford to pay the bills - never mind live

[Xaccers]

Finding one that would fund your degree would be the hardest part.
In IT, industry based qualifications tend to have more weight, things like the CCNA and MCSE, than an degree.
To be honest, if I were interviewing someone, their personal experience and IT qualifications would outweigh even an "IT" based degree

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Finding one that would fund your degree would be the hardest part.
In IT, industry based qualifications tend to have more weight, things like the CCNA and MCSE, than an degree.
To be honest, if I were interviewing someone, their personal experience and IT qualifications would outweigh even an "IT" based degree

That's pretty much what I thought - unfortunately my current employers won't fund a specific IT qualification, the degree is IT/Business.

TBH the funding of the degree isn't a deal breaker, but I'd like to know that I would get help towards attaining some sort of recognised qualification.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Raistlin

That's pretty much what I thought - unfortunately my current employers won't fund a specific IT qualification, the degree is IT/Business.

TBH the funding of the degree isn't a deal breaker, but I'd like to know that I would get help towards attaining some sort of recognised qualification.

Go to certkillers or cramguides.com and get the mcse study packs, study lots, play around with win2003, take the exams and your'e away.
Exams are £88 each in this country, our company gets vouchers so we get them free and there's often free re-sits thrown in.
You could (if feeling confident enough) fly to israel and do them all, as they only cost £35 over there.

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Go to certkillers or cramguides.com and get the mcse study packs, study lots, play around with win2003, take the exams and your'e away.
Exams are £88 each in this country, our company gets vouchers so we get them free and there's often free re-sits thrown in.
You could (if feeling confident enough) fly to israel and do them all, as they only cost £35 over there.

Have you used either of those two sites? If so, what's the quality of the material like?

The prices certainly seem good, almost unbelievable in fact.

[zovat]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Finding one that would fund your degree would be the hardest part.
In IT, industry based qualifications tend to have more weight, things like the CCNA and MCSE, than an degree.
To be honest, if I were interviewing someone, their personal experience and IT qualifications would outweigh even an "IT" based degree

I would agree, and add that a lot of companies will weigh relevant experience as more important than any qualifications.

I myself have a BTEC (OND) in computer studies (the equivelant of a couple of A Levels) and am currently working with a team where most of the people below me are graduates, but with a lot less "real world" experience.

I thought my lack of a degree would hamper my career, but most if not all jobs I look at have "degree or relevant experience" as a requirement, and I find that 15 years Unix and 7.5 of that with a mojor vendor tends to open the doors to e interview pretty well.

[pop80_uk]

A degree means nothing.

I have a degree before anyone jumps on me, in Business and Telecommunications Technology with integrated network structure studies.

I left Uni two years ago, in those two years I attended 64 interviews. I got non of the jobs, they all said I needed more experience. Cant get the experience if no one gives me a job. So what am I doing now, I'm doing two night courses at college (paid for by me) and working for 12K as an admin assistant gaining experience and feeling like a total looser as people who left school at 16 pass me earning £20 - 27K when they didn't even get a GCSE.

Uni is a waste of time and money. If you want to get a good job then get a job out of school and work upwards or do a vocational course.

Uni is a bad thing in today's job market, people hate graduates and have the idea that they will be stuck up and pompous.

This is my experience, opinion and personal thought.

[Raistlin]

zovat/pop80,

Thanks for your advice.

My employers are paying for the degree, that's the only reason I'm bothering.

I've worked my way up where I am at the moment, and have all the experience/knowledge that I need in that field - it just doesn't really float my boat.

I'd like to move into an area where I know I have a genuine passion, and a lot of useful knowledge - the stopping point is that I have no real (and by that I mean, in the workplace) experience.

I don't know how to get that experience if I'm never going to get a job, and I really can't work my way up from the bottom again

[Chrysalis]

My experience is mixed.

From what I heard of friends many companies will simply not interview people who dont have a degree, eg. advertising in universities for graduates or word of mouth. My own eyes seem to verify this, 80% of jobs in the paper which arent managerial are under 20k a year.

Also a friend works in a car plant has 30 odd years experience but has hit the ceiling because he has no degree his company has a hard policy of people above that line must have a degree.

Of course I have seen it the other way as well, there are companies out there that are asking for minimum experience level regardless of qualification.

The truth is right now its an employers market they can be picky at least it is in Leicester.

[Scarlett]

Originally Posted by pop80_uk

A degree means nothing.

I have a degree before anyone jumps on me, in Business and Telecommunications Technology with integrated network structure studies.

I left Uni two years ago, in those two years I attended 64 interviews. I got non of the jobs, they all said I needed more experience. Cant get the experience if no one gives me a job. So what am I doing now, I'm doing two night courses at college (paid for by me) and working for 12K as an admin assistant gaining experience and feeling like a total looser as people who left school at 16 pass me earning £20 - 27K when they didn't even get a GCSE.

Uni is a waste of time and money. If you want to get a good job then get a job out of school and work upwards or do a vocational course.

Uni is a bad thing in today's job market, people hate graduates and have the idea that they will be stuck up and pompous.

This is my experience, opinion and personal thought.

Sounds familear, took me 2 and half years or so to get into a proper job using my computer science degree. and a large number of failed interviews. The only good thing is that I learnt from my failed interviews and got better at selling myself.

[SMHarman]

It is an interesting conundrum, I have qualified form my position through a non-traditional route doing Accounting Technician instead of a Degree and then becoming an Accountant (which is effectivly a post graduate qualification).
Initially after qualification this training route meant a high percentage of prospective ees would not look at my CV, these days that is not really the case as they see the qualification and the experince since gained.
This car mfr seems very short sighted in this graduate approach. As a business becomes more global they need to look beyond these aspects as while all mgr material may have gone to college in say the US or Germany that may well not be the case in other markets.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Raistlin

Have you used either of those two sites? If so, what's the quality of the material like?

The prices certainly seem good, almost unbelievable in fact.

I've used cramguides, and they're great, if you had a perfect memory you could read all their material and pass each exam at 100%, but I like them because they go into detail as to why the right answer is right, and why the wrong ones aren't.
You do need hands on and background understanding of things like Active Directory, but you can get hold of trial copies of Microsoft software for free, or through other means which we won't go into or condone *innocent look*

To download their MCSE2003 package it's 128MB currently (gets updated often) all in PDF format, so if you can get time alone with a printer at work and a industrial strength stapler, then it's easier to study from them in booklet form.
Not so great though if you're on dialup with an old colour inkjet printer!