2 Routers

[cnewton2k]

Now then

I have got to Netgear Routers 1 downstairs and 1 upstairs, now everything is working fine at the moment but they are on different IP ranges.

What i would like to do is use them both on the same.

I have included a pic of how it is setup.

Cheers

[Kymmy]

Wouldn't it be easier to just either turn off NAT on the 2nd router or simply replace it with a HUB/Switch??

Unless of course you have a reason for two routers??

Kymmy

[cnewton2k]

Well yeah there is kinda

If i have a second router downstairs i would like to use it to extend the range of my wireless.

[Kymmy]

It still though doesn't need to route (NAT) a wireless access point is simply a bridge between two types of media (cable/RF) and doesn't route at all..

Just turn off NAT on the 2nd router and the first router will handle all the IP requests (and DHCP if you use that)

Kymmy

[cnewton2k]

o right wicked thanks

so what do i set the lan ip on the second router?

[Raistlin]

Either set it to obtain one automatically from the DHCP server on the 1st router, or you could set it to something within the same schema as the 1st.

For example:

Router 1: 192.168.1.1
Router 2: 192.168.1.2

[Kymmy]

It actually shouldn't need the IP set to anything in particular as the IP is purely used for NAT and accessing the config. I'd static it though to something in the same range as router #1 but outside of the dhcp pool that way you always know how to access the config..
Kymmy

[Jon T]

Actually, what should be happening is that you shouldn't be using the WAN port of the second router at all. Plug the thernet link cable from the first router into one of the LAN ports on the second. You'll lose the ability to manage the second router so make sure you configure the wireless how you want it beforehand. That way you've avoided a "double NAT" situation.

[popper]

first of all using .ppt here is a bad idea, not everyone can see those and cant be bothered to convert them..... simple jpg,gif are far better.

extending your wireless range is simple, you dont need wireless routers, any cheap wireless AP will do in the speed range and freq you want to use, just spread them out to were you want them to cover, then single ethernet wire them all into a central and cheap (1gig is best long term,but now esential OC,unless you are going to use 11N kit with 1 gig wired ports included anytime in the future)switch...

keep one master wireless router as your DHCP server to give out IPs in the range you want, or better, as already said, hand out fixed IPs to the Mac's, or manually assign them to each extra AP/router.

when its done right you can even use the spare WAN ports on these wireless routers (see theres always a good side to everything ) to attach some isolated FreeNAS fileservers in another room in the house,in the loft for instance, for all your remote file storage, ISCSI is the fastest ethernet protocol to use for that BTW....(over that 1gig wired LAN server section OC)

OC the No.1 reason to hardwire any extra wireless routers/AP's into the same Ip range, is your not then using up the valuable wireless bandwidth to link them together as you might with WDS mode.

this is a very old argument but keeping as much data off the wireless part can only be a good thing, so a simple wired star config into a wired switch of any extra wireless AP/routers will serve you really well.


as will fitting new directional arials to keep the noise down, something as simple as a bit of foil shaped in a half circle on cardboard backing and hole at the focus point sliped over your current fitted AP/router arials works well too

google DIY wireless arials to see many versions on the cheap ...

[hoggie]

ive been running with two routers for a year now.
first router is just for xbox360 (wired) with no firewall and wifi switched off. second router is the new mimo N with all security switched on just for laptops (three of them).
with the 20Mb line all works great.
but I have the ip of xbox on manual.
it all works great and will do a plan of my settings for you.

[Jon T]

I've just purchased a Linksys WRT54G to use as an access point (I have a linux based firewall/router). Flashed it with DD-WRT, turned of the router section of it and allocated re-allocated the WAN socket to the 4 port switch(now 5 port), work great.

[GrahamP]

Hi All

I have a similar request.

I am trying to connect two wireless routers to one another (see attached diagram). The two routers work fine together for attached wired devices when I do a simple setup wizard with my NETGEAR Router pretending that the Primary Router is a modem.

I can get a wired connection from the secondary router, but although wireless devices can see the available connection they fail to obtain access to the gateway for internet access.

I have read some other forums but have problems when I try matching the IP/Subnet mask on the secondary router and disabling DHCP.

Another forum said to use identical SSID names on both routers, but to put 1 router on channel 1 and one on channel 11. This still didn't work.

Can anyone lend some advice on how to set this up properly? many thanks

[Graham M]

Yeah turn off the NAT, DHCP, etc services on the second router and use it as a Swtich/WAP

[popper]

Originally Posted by GrahamP

Hi All

I have a similar request.

I am trying to connect two wireless routers to one another (see attached diagram). The two routers work fine together for attached wired devices when I do a simple setup wizard with my NETGEAR Router pretending that the Primary Router is a modem.

I can get a wired connection from the secondary router, but although wireless devices can see the available connection they fail to obtain access to the gateway for internet access.

I have read some other forums but have problems when I try matching the IP/Subnet mask on the secondary router and disabling DHCP.

Another forum said to use identical SSID names on both routers, but to put 1 router on channel 1 and one on channel 11. This still didn't work.

Can anyone lend some advice on how to set this up properly? many thanks

as graham said ,turning off the NAT, DHCPd, etc services can work fine.

the other forums were right, although i get the impression they didnt tell you why you set them that way.

it not as hard as you might think, take away all the confusing wireless options thinking for a minute, and just think of all this LAN networking as a set of pipes (yeah i know groan!!!) that once connected in the right sequence the data can just flow.

your nearly there BTW, i suspect its the setup wizard with the NETGEAR as inner LAN/WAN(in this case), thats messing it up, forget the wizard, and keep to the simple generic wired rules, if wired works,wireless does to when within range OC and turning off all security until you get it running and connected as you want (then and only then turn them back on, one at a time, to be sure to pin down any connection problems they may cause in any of this).

i bet the setup wizard on the NETGEAR gives that section a totally seperate IP range to the primary 192.168.0.*(as in the main section devices connected to the first router) AND that the first router isnt setting all the options needed to the second router to pass data beteen them.

something like

ISP-WAN-IP=ADSL/CM<=>WAN=Zyxel-port2=(primary)LAN 192.168.0.1 etc...(everything works there including wireless attached kit)

and (assumed assigned IPs No.s here)
Zyxel-port1<=192.168.0.2=>WAN-IP=NETGEAR-port2=LAN-10.0.0.1(it might be 192.168.1.1 OC in which case setting a messy 255.255.0.0 netmast could work)

the NETGEAR wizard is probably seeing a 192.168.0.* range on the NETGEAR WAN side and so using a totally unrelated range for setting its LAN side IP range to be safe, but thats not so clever in this small home LAN with a few wireless routers.

right how do you cure this, the simple option to turn off the DHCP of the inner router (the Netgear in this case) and just have the outer DSL connected router give out IPs.

although id be inclind to reverse that, and turn off the outer routers (Zyxel)DHCP so that it has one less internal CPU taking task to perform, and so help increase your BB thoughput processing.

at end of the day it does'nt really matter were the DHCPd IP giver runs in that section in the LAN, you just loose more CPU cycles on the wireless router its running.

your ISP WAN-SIDE given Ip cant be changed it needs to be autoset for the Zyxel WAN side for ISP data to flow in and out.

however EVERYTHING on the LAN side can be set by you, so set the DHCP range for that Zyxel to say 192.168.0.10 through 192.168.0.20

that gives you 10 IPs that are auto set as devices connect with 'get IP automaticly' set to that outer router ,and any Ip outside this range can still be used and set manually if you like.

now , because you are probably going to also forget to turn off the inner netgear routers DHCPd, you can also set that netgear range to another set of No.s outside what you have set for the outer router, BUT still keep it in the same section (thats important) that in effect means giving the netgear a fixed IP of say 192.168.0.2 rather than have the outer Zyxel DHCP assign it one, if you are going to get the Zyxel to assum it, make it a fixed one,outside those 10 auto IP.

set the Netgear DHCPd to say 192.168.31 through 192.168.0.41 so another 10 IPs to auto play with from that inner section that can still let data flow with the generic 255.255.255.0 mask.


that netmask is the key to keeping your sections under control and letting data flow BTW, the basic rule is for every .255 you replace with a .0 from right to left gives you 256xexp more to play with, 192.168.*.*/255.255.255.0 gives you 254.

192.168.*.*/255.255.0.0 gives you 16384 to play with etc,as you can probably see, you dont need more than 254 and so 255.255.255.0 gives all you need for any home LAN

however two totally seperate private IP ranges 192.*.*.* and 10.*.*.* need a bridge of some sort, and thats probably whats going wrong in your inner LAN netgear case.

personally i dont really like DHCP assigned IPs as you dont know what device is getting what IP , i much prefer to set by hand per device case, for instance i know the fixed IP of the PC i want to tightVNC into to read this forum, but auto assigned IPs might change that unexpectedly.

but for simplicity, the unbreakable rule is ONLY EVER RUN ONE DHCPd server on a given section ( a section is the given mask for a given private IP range 192.168.0.* in this case).

now wireless, the reason you set them on different channels is simple, it cuts down interference and so helps cut down the re-transmits and slowing the wireless throughput down, plus there are ONLY 3 clearly seperated channels in 11b/g/n so you can realisticly use upto 3 wireless router/wap devices hard wired together through a wired router for these, the far less popular 11a is slightly different more channels seperation, but 11a massively restricts your distance and power output and so a less usable option in most cases.

"Another forum said to use identical SSID names on both routers" i dont really agree with that, as your not a commercial entity, and all that does is advertise the entity as a whole its an advertised name thats all, and you cant
really tell at a glance which wireless device your trying to connect to, much better to use say GrahamP1,GrahamP2.GrahamP3

that way you know that if you connect to GrahamP2 and all the other devices connect to GrahamP1 then you have full bandwidth to play with on that wireless route while every other device connected to GrahamP1 is shareing that limited wireless bandwidth.

thats why commercial wireless lans use lots of wireles routers/WAP devices connected over and to a wired LAN router, but use identical SSID names , the load gets spread around but people THINK they are all connecting to the one device, their not OC.


right ,lets get down to your problem.

wired as per your png already, thats exactly right....
forget any wizard.

set the DSL connected Zyxel for a fixed LAN IP of 192.168.0.1, and for its DHCPd range to give out IPs of 192.168.0.10 through to 192.168.0.20

assign the Netgear a fixed LAN IP of 192.168.0.2, turn off it's DHCPd, or as above, another range outside and excluding those 192.168.0.10 through to 192.168.0.20,so as NOT to clash, I.E 192.168.0.30 through to 192.168.0.40

powercyle the DSL (or cable broadband modem ,its exactly the same for eather type of connection, even a really old serial dialup type connection ) .

powercyle the outer Zyxel (make sure you saved the settings before you do that OC)

powercyle the inner netgear (make sure you saved the settings before you do that OC)

assuming they have this most basic tool in there...
go into the Zyxel internal webserver page and
ping 87.106.129.133 (the www.cableforum.co.uk IP)
then ping www.cableforum.co.uk

they are not the same, one uses DNS the other does not

do the same from the internal netgear webserver page and make sure they all work, currently i assume its works from the Zyxel but not the netgear!

any devce that then connects to the routers (wired OR wireless)will also be able to do the same, if it doesnt ping from the routers internal page its software setting are broke there, and nothing connected them will work eather...

mark down any currently working DNS and ISP default route IP's just in case you need to add them into the inner router's settings, but you should be fine and not need to as the outer router should handle that for you.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Graham M

Yeah turn off the NAT, DHCP, etc services on the second router and use it as a Swtich/WAP

This is exactly how I have my two routers (a Speedtouch 780 and Apple Time Capsule) set up.

The Speedtouch provides ADSL, DHCP, Nat for the whole network (but not wireless) and the Time Capsule provides 3 one-gig ports , wireless-n, a NAS and printer-sharing.