HTTP traffic overtakes P2P - Virgin going the wrong way

An interesting article on Ars: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ipses-p2p.html

Seems like Virgins traffic shaping malarky is going in the wrong direction. Rather than hitting the top 10% of users, now they are hammering everyone. It is no longer the 10%, it is the majority using video streaming web sites.

[dev]

er virgins traffic throttling affects all traffic, it's 3GB downloaded via any means so i dont see what this has to do with virgin at all.

[Incomplete]

Originally Posted by dev

er virgins traffic throttling affects all traffic, it's 3GB downloaded via any means so i dont see what this has to do with virgin at all.

Er think his point was that even Grandma using Youtube too much triggers the STM so the throttle is a bit indiscriminate rather than being targetted on those who would traditionally be considered heavy users.

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------

Originally Posted by mojo

An interesting article on Ars: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ipses-p2p.html

Seems like Virgins traffic shaping malarky is going in the wrong direction. Rather than hitting the top 10% of users, now they are hammering everyone. It is no longer the 10%, it is the majority using video streaming web sites.

Report by traffic shaping hardware manufacturer showing that buying their hardware is a good move shock

[dev]

Originally Posted by Incomplete

Er think his point was that even Grandma using Youtube too much triggers the STM so the throttle is a bit indiscriminate rather than being targetted on those who would traditionally be considered heavy users.

i'd say bandwidth is bandwidth, just because someone is watching youtube doesn't mean they can hammer the connection every second they're awake

OMG nooooooooooooooooo

Is this thread on HTTP over taking P2P or is it another traffic shaping thread . If its a shaping thread then shame on you for starting another one

Yes, my point is that Virgin's claims about the top 5-10% of "heavy users" is rubbish. Everyone is becomming a heavy user now YouTube and services like Joost/Channel 4 on-demand are becomming popular.

Just wait until the BBC's iPlayer is launched. Virgin may cope by throttling the hell out of everyone, but it is going to destroy ADSL.

ADSL providers pay a fixed fee to BT for a certain amount of bandwidth, and then fit as many users as they like on to it. At current prices, they have to massively oversubscribe to make a profit, and rely on low download limits. Once the BBC get started (and presumably advertise the service on TV)...

Originally Posted by Incomplete

Report by traffic shaping hardware manufacturer showing that buying their hardware is a good move shock

Well, I don't think they would lie about something like that. After all, it is volume of traffic that sells their products, not the make up of the traffic.

[Incomplete]

Originally Posted by mojo

Well, I don't think they would lie about something like that. After all, it is volume of traffic that sells their products, not the make up of the traffic.

Not really it's very much the makeup of the traffic. Their USP is that their equipment can look deeeep into your packets to identify them and selectively control them.

If there's no need for that all operators could adopt the freebie Virgin way of doing things, download X MB in Y time you get throttled

---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 ----------

Originally Posted by mojo

Just wait until the BBC's iPlayer is launched. Virgin may cope by throttling the hell out of everyone, but it is going to destroy ADSL.

ADSL providers pay a fixed fee to BT for a certain amount of bandwidth, and then fit as many users as they like on to it. At current prices, they have to massively oversubscribe to make a profit, and rely on low download limits. Once the BBC get started (and presumably advertise the service on TV)...

Good! Super cheap operators who offer a poor quality of service at stupidly low prices with incredibly harsh FUPs *cough Tiscali* deserve to be destroyed.

Changes in traffic patterns might also make Ofcom release the pricing pressures on the BT Centrals that are currently there to favour LLU.

About time people in the UK as a whole realise that quality pays in many different ways in virtually every part of life. Reminds me of people going abroad to where they actually pay more than £3 for a whole chicken, as in one that didn't live in its' own excrement with about 3 billion other chickens and commenting on how good the food was.

Originally Posted by Incomplete

Changes in traffic patterns might also make Ofcom release the pricing pressures on the BT Centrals that are currently there to favour LLU.

About time people in the UK as a whole realise that quality pays in many different ways in virtually every part of life. Reminds me of people going abroad to where they actually pay more than £3 for a whole chicken, as in one that didn't live in its' own excrement with about 3 billion other chickens and commenting on how good the food was.

I tend to disagree. The problem is that BT's "21st Century Network" is a joke. They have no incentive to spend the huge amounts of money required to upgrade it either.

I am currently in Japan. My friend has 100/100 symetrical fiber optic connection, which she pays about 23 pounds a month for. No download limits etc, and is is very very fast. Most ADSL packages are either budget 12mB or performacne 56mB here too, for around the same money or less.

Telcos here invested money in upgrading their networks. They realised that BB is the future. Sure, it costs a lot to invest in, but the return in the long run will be huge. They can now supply TV, movie sales/rentals and more. In the future, they probably will not even be TV channels or video rental stores, just BB, and they want to be the ones providing it. In the UK, streaming TV has only just started and the quality is not quite as good as Freeview. Here in Japan, you can watch streaming HDTV at better quality than the over-the-air broadcasts.

Virgin should do streaming HDTV. HDTVs are not common and are expensive, but almost all computer monitors can do at least 720p.

[Incomplete]

21CN is purely a core network upgrade and migration from legacy systems to all IP architecture.

Worth mentioning that NTT are required to unbundle their FTTP networks in the same manner BT were as well. NTT had no more incentive than BT apart from economics of population density and a cheaper network build due to prevalence of overhead lines.

Just the way these mad Japanese people with their super internets and 4G phones are.

EDIT:

The two most important factors accounting for the expansion of fiber networks in Japan are probably very low monetary interest rates and institutional policy commitment to provide ubiquitous fiber network. Since the mid-1990s, the Japanese central bank discount rate has been below 1%. In contrast, U.S. Federal Reserve discount rate has been above 5% for most of that period. Cheap access to capital encourages major capital investments.

Originally Posted by Incomplete

21CN is purely a core network upgrade and migration from legacy systems to all IP architecture.

Worth mentioning that NTT are required to unbundle their FTTP networks in the same manner BT were as well. NTT had no more incentive than BT apart from economics of population density and a cheaper network build due to prevalence of overhead lines.

Just the way these mad Japanese people with their super internets and 4G phones are.

EDIT:

What you say is true, but keep two things in mind. Although NTT have to unbundle, the pricing scheme is much better so it is worth their while. Also, a lot of it is ADSL, which is up to 56Mb here because the exchanges are closer and the old copper has been upgraded in most places. But yeah, population density helps.

Oh, and I am renting one of those phones... 3.5Mb broadband to the handset!

[annoyance]

Personally I feel the problem is VM. (In 3yrs I never had speed issues when it was BY) But as soon as NTL take over and it becomes VM, shock horror, I have speed issues a few times a month.

VM seem to forget that this is the time of online GAMING, this does take up bandwidth. But they seem to think that we are still living in times were the most bandwidth goes to the minority that download movies and songs.

Cable has taken a huge step backwards since it became VM controlled, but at the same time it's also my best bet for internet right now so I am stuck here.

[mcmanic]

since virgin have taken over i cannot use any service that allows streaming in the evening, even simple gametrailers stop and buffer 3 or 4 times per clip. If i couldn't use my internet during the day (which alot cannot) then i would of cancelled by now because in fairness you are not getting what you pay for anymore for when the majority want to use it

It sounds like everyone is fed up. Annoyance: the thing is, it is not a minority downloading heavily any more. That was my point - now even the average user takes up quite a lot of bandwidth with streaming videos, webcams, IPTV, iTunes downloads etc. I mean, BitTorrent sells TV shows that weigh in at around 350MB, far more for movies. Everyone is at it, not just a minority.

Also, games use up quite a bit of bandwidth too. Not just when playing them, but when downloading patches and new content (XBOX Live is a good example of needing to download hundreds of megabytes).

As you say, the problem is VM not wanting to invest. If they took a long term view that BB is the future and investment now will not only put them in a very strong position (since BT is stuck at 16Mb or less with no plans to upgrade). Instead, I bet they are trying to do the usual NTL thing of offering a service that is slightly better than the opposition for slightly less or the same money.

[LiamTG]

It's the big conspiracy thing. Like the way the British are drip fed technology as our governments and top businessmen don't want the buying public to have things NOW. HDTV for example was available in the US and Japan in the late 80's - yes over 20 years ago.

In a year or so's time VM will make their VOD service available on line - they will then advertise it as completely unlimited with no speed restrictions or traffic shaping.

Get this VM - you can now purchase movies on line, in DVD format - LEGALLY. This means that should ppl wish to purchase said film in said format they will be DL on average 5GB.

Therefore you will penalise people for doing things the legit way.

My final comments are:

Don't advertise things you cannot deliver. HDTV and 20MB broadband.
Don't charge people for a service they are not getting. If you traffic shape them and they lose half their speed - half their internet bill.

[Chrysalis]

This amused me.

the vast majority of Internet traffic is non-critical (i.e., no one's going to die or lose $20 million if they don't download a YouTube clip or a new song in under a minute)

So a skipping youtube clip is not a critical problem?