Legal Problem - V/M vs Sky

[plutosmate]

How do people stand ? legally?
I've recenty upgraded to V+ (4 months ago) which is better than skys version (allows to record three programs vs skys two). Due to the Sky channel lost, Can I end my contract early? Will I have to pay a premium to leave ?

At the end of the day V/M cant supply me with what I ordered / pay for thus THEY are in breach of contract?

Help ?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by plutosmate

How do people stand ? legally?
I've recenty upgraded to V+ (4 months ago) which is better than skys version (allows to record three programs vs skys two). Due to the Sky channel lost, Can I end my contract early? Will I have to pay a premium to leave ?

At the end of the day V/M cant supply me with what I ordered / pay for thus THEY are in breach of contract?

Help ?

The t&cs state that you can cancel if they significantly alter their services.... I don't know who it's up to to decide whether the loss of 4 channels (it is just 4 isn't it?) is 'significant' or not..... Although no-where in the t&cs does it state anything about guaranteeing specific channels...

I believe the appropriate paragraph in the legal stuff is j3(see below) - it would be defining "significantly altered or reduced" in regards to the services might be the tricky bit, but who know? Any contract lawyers on the CF willing to give an opinion?

"If:

• we and/or Virgin Media Payments increase our charges under this agreement;
• we make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
• we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the terms and conditions of this agreement (including the other legal stuff),

you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us at least 30 days' notice in writing. If you cancel any services in these circumstances, the increased charges will not apply to those services during the 30 day notice period and paragraph J2 will not apply if you cancel before the end of the minimum period. If you do not give us notice of cancellation within 30 days of any increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you or, if later, receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges, we and Virgin Media Payments will assume that you have accepted the increase in charges and the changes to the services and this agreement and you will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph. "

[Bob]

It's three channels lost if you are an ex-Telewest customer. Six channels if you're an ex-NTL customer

[info4u]

Whilst working for Telewest Broadband (and during the merge with NTL and complete merge with Virgin before the official launch of Virgin media's name)

The answer would be no.
Because you enter a written / verbal agreement to stay with the company for 12 months. (you can but at a penaty charge for breaking your commitment, even thou your channels are no longer available in the terms and conditions it does mention the company reserve the rights to change the channel line up without an exit clause)

Even though the sky channels have gone I would still stay with Virgin since this is just another way Sky are trying to force customers to go over to them

The services with their broadband is ADSL which is poorer quality to DSL
Their Sky+ Sky 180 and HD boxes are less effective (Though they have more HD channels this is a matter of time before change)
Sky arent all winners since they would have lossed 3.3 million customers
which sky wanted to charge Virgin Media 3 times more for the channels (3p per day) compared to the normal costs

So if Virgin Media had of agreed to their new charges you would have seen at least 60p increase in your monthly costs just for Sky News, Sky Travel Sky Sports News and Sky 1 which would have generated complaints (Experiance from when working there)

All in all Virgin Media will be obtaining contracts to show Sky programming from Sky 1 on on demand channels currently 120 in replacement to Sky One to show Nip Tuk and other programmes, Hopefully this will include the simpsons and many other channels

In the meanwhile you may catch Sky news, Sky Travel and Sky One on Freeview.

Or watch sky news on the website directly

This is no surprise from Sky since they did the same with the Disney Channels back in 2004 and Movie channels, they always wait to last minute to end the contract and then force complaining customers missing their channels to go over to Sky.
As these are owned by sky it puts a downer on the services

Without dought though keep holding on with Virgin you will probably see
Virgin Movies
Virgin 1-2-3
Virgin Sports to replace the stranglehold that sky are putting on the company

Sky only doing this because they are finally feeling the pressure not to mention this is the first time sky have trully had some competition and look at how they are spitting their dummy out the pram.

Not very professional in my eyes.

Quick Reminder...
Disney channel issue 2004
Movie channels
Late at renuwing contracts with competitors on purpose
Poor Sky+ compared to V+ which records more and has more functionality
TV On Demand and TV Replay
TV + Phone and Broadband with one company and now mobile phone

Unlike sky who only provided satalite Tv until recently which is phone and broadband though BT lines but paid to Sky

Red button is charged with Sky where as Free with Virgin* Some charge
Higher speeds on Broadband with Virgin are comming vs to sky
More channels to come Example HBO with Virgin

Remember the ITV insident

Sky have lost 3.3 million which will be a loss to them they are hoping customers will switch
Those who dont will force sky to renegatiate and be fair

Originally Posted by info4u

Whilst working for Telewest Broadband (and during the merge with NTL and complete merge with Virgin before the official launch of Virgin media's name)

The answer would be no.
Because you enter a written / verbal agreement to stay with the company for 12 months. (you can but at a penaty charge for breaking your commitment, even thou your channels are no longer available in the terms and conditions it does mention the company reserve the rights to change the channel line up without an exit clause) ... snip...

Would probably have been enough .........

[plutosmate]

It is tricky to decide if to stay or go.......I see in the news that 20mb will be comming to the big broadband packages, will this filter down to the lower models (ie 10mb instead of 2mb).

I will just have to "find" lost series 3 by other means and just hope V/M dont winge when I start downloading more each week.

I am very tempted just to stay with V/M JUST to see what they do next.
BUT when my contract is finally up....then things might change.

SO to summarise........I cant move else I face the rath of a penalty price clause.

[Alien]

Originally Posted by info4u

So if Virgin Media had of agreed to their new charges you would have seen at least 60p increase in your monthly costs just for Sky News, Sky Travel Sky Sports News and Sky 1 which would have generated complaints (Experiance from when working there)

They could have solved the problem simply by giving customers the option to pay the extra for those channels, but they didn't.

Originally Posted by info4u

All in all Virgin Media will be obtaining contracts to show Sky programming from Sky 1 on on demand channels currently 120 in replacement to Sky One to show Nip Tuk and other programmes

What about stuff like Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis, Battlestar Galactica, The Dresden Files, Bones, The 4400, & Cold Case?

Originally Posted by info4u

In the meanwhile you may catch Sky news, Sky Travel and Sky One on Freeview.

Except I don't have Freeview, because I pay for cable. To get freeview would require paying for extra hardware, plus having a proper aerial intalled, as reception around here is less than great, & from what I've heard I'd basically be buying something which would then become useless [to me] in a few months time when Sky deny Freeview users access to Sky1.

Originally Posted by info4u

More channels to come Example HBO with Virgin

Yeah, I remember seeing HBO mentioned, & I think I also remember seeing Band of Brothers mentioned as a "selling point", the only problem with that is that it's been on BBC2 [twice I think], & I've had the boxed set for 3 years!

[info4u]

Originally Posted by plutosmate

It is tricky to decide if to stay or go.......I see in the news that 20mb will be comming to the big broadband packages, will this filter down to the lower models (ie 10mb instead of 2mb).

I will just have to "find" lost series 3 by other means and just hope V/M dont winge when I start downloading more each week.

I am very tempted just to stay with V/M JUST to see what they do next.
BUT when my contract is finally up....then things might change.

SO to summarise........I cant move else I face the rath of a penalty price clause.

Unfortunatly - most companies do this to help maintain customers for a minimum period as a commitment.

[scrotnig]

Sky One is NOT on Freeview and never has been. Just to clarify.

[Alien]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Sky One is NOT on Freeview and never has been. Just to clarify.

Ah well, I thought it sounded odd when it was mentioned, but responded to it anyway.

[info4u]

What about stuff like Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis, Battlestar Galactica, The Dresden Files, Bones, The 4400, & Cold Case?

Ok well my nan likes watching Lost which I believe its on series 2 which at the moment VM is showing Lost series 1.

However lets not forget that this only happened on 1st March
Its still early days, Virgin are not going to pay out $Millions to obtain the legal copyright rights to broadcast Lost Series 2 on demand for free along side...

Stargate, Attlantis, Battlestar Galactica, The Dresden Files, Bones, The Simpsons, Futurama, The 4400, Cold Case, Star Strek and so on.

If a DECENT negotiation can be made with Sky that benefits ALL customers or 90% of customers then they will move towards that
However a super complaint so SkyNews have stated has been initiated by the fair trading office.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...570032,00.html

Sky News can be watched online along side Sky Sports News along side with many other channels available on the basic package for FREE.

Why should Virgin pay out rights at a blink of an eye if there is still room for negotiations even if its past the deadline of the contract for broadcasting
Before you know it the channels could be back in 7 days for all you know, only because the channels have gone doesnt mean Virgin Media have ceased trying to negotiate, instead for what I hear, Virgin tried to get a 3rd party who was non biosed involved for an opinion on the prices Sky was asking for to which Sky refused (See BBC Link)

As for the price option,
You have to consider there, the time it takes to do a poll
Website & TV Poll- Programming and paying the IT team to do this (Even tho its part of their job and wages they would have to stop projects already in development just to attend to this one, therefore postponing the tasks already set out and having to pay out more)

Phone Poll (Call Tree Options)
No one really wants to listen to a 2minute recording about Sky channels before calling up and the earlderly customers complaint about the call tree full stop can you imagine what it could be like with a poll on it.
and customers who may have experianced a fault would be more encouraged to disconnect if they hear there is a potential issue with the channels also.

The Time:
Finally the Time to gather the poll together, Sky like to leave things to last minute to force customers a loss of service so they would want to go over to Sky if a negotiation is not meet, so nothing new there.
and lets say 90% said yes I want to pay Sky's offering it would more than likely be sky would then change their price so that if VM agreed customers would still be hacked off.
or if they didnt agree to the channels increase then there would still be a minority that would be complaining
and during contact with people from VM I would say its the minority that are complaining about it.

Without trying to get personal or offensive I would state, that watching as much TV as your making out to sound with all those programmes listed above is not healthy, I watch maximum 6hrs a week TV, its there for times I dont have anything to do or to kill time before going out.

---------- Post added at 00:54 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Sky One is NOT on Freeview and never has been. Just to clarify.

Your quite right its sky news and sky sports news (sorry for the confusion there peeps)
I thought it was Sky one and Sky 3but that was NTL not freeview as it was the ITV channels that where on freeview (ITV4) and that takes me back to when ITV4 was on freeview and not on Telewest
People complained and disconnected, whilst negotiations where going on with ITV, once an agreement had been reached customers where having to call back for the service because they heard it was now available on cable and how their Freeview box didnt pick up a good signal (Once again sorry for the confusion there peeps)