Iraq

25-09-2003, 13:12

I was thinking about the problems in Iraq while watching a programme on UK history. It was about one of the Korean conflicts the British were involved in during the 50's. It showed a small group of SAS soldiers who went out in small groups hunting communist's. They made lots of friends with the locals and gained their trust. This worked great and the bee all and end all was they shoved them out of the area's and the locals were happy.

I see this working again in Basra were the British are now. British soldiers going out on patrol their in small groups and gaining the trust of the locals.

Lately now however that's going pair shaped. I put that myself down to the stupidity of the yanks and their balls up in Baghdad. Their doing the opposite. Did they learn nothing from Vietnam!.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...105022,00.html

darkangel · 25-09-2003, 13:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Defiant
I was thinking about the problems in Iraq while watching a programme on UK history. It was about one of the Korean conflicts the British were involved in during the 50's. It showed a small group of SAS soldiers who went out in small groups hunting communist's. They made lots of friends with the locals and gained their trust. This worked great and the bee all and end all was they shoved them out of the area's and the locals were happy.

I see this working again in Basra were the British are now. British soldiers going out on patrol their in small groups and gaining the trust of the locals.

Lately now however that's going pair shaped. I put that myself down to the stupidity of the yanks and their balls up in Baghdad. Their doing the opposite. Did they learn nothing from Vietnam!.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...105022,00.html

no offence m8 but don't believe everything you hear and see in the media, granted the American army has a lot to learn but remember we have plenty of recent experience with subjugating and repressing local populations as far as Korea goes both the Americans and the British made Friends with local towns and leaders then used them to slaughter their own people, u need to have been in the situations to understand how much you don't see reading articles and watching Anglo American propaganda will not give u the full story!

**Chris** · 25-09-2003, 13:44

Quote:

Originally posted by darkangel
no offence m8 but don't believe everything you hear and see in the media, granted the American army has a lot to learn but remember we have plenty of recent experience with subjugating and repressing local populations as far as Korea goes both the Americans and the British made Friends with local towns and leaders then used them to slaughter their own people, u need to have been in the situations to understand how much you don't see reading articles and watching Anglo American propaganda will not give u the full story!

That said, the British army's superior experience in running an empire and dealing with populations hiding terrorists has shown through - much was made of apparently simple measures like the way the Brits set up their roadblocks so it's impossible for a car full of women to accidentally drive up to it at speed. Our army also seemed to get out of helmets and into berets a lot quicker.
It could just be selective reporting, but I can't help but get the impression that the British army has got on better with the people of Basra than the Americans have managed in Baghdad.

Xaccers · 25-09-2003, 15:02

We also have a better foreign image than the americans.
I know when I was in Saudi we were always treated with respect because we were always polite and courtious (which is what the foreign image of us Brits is).
Americans have a foriegn image of being brash and gung-ho, loud and inconsiderate, and people use that image first before they get to know the individual.

Atomic22 · 25-09-2003, 19:22

YANKS/BRITS.....hi iraqis we kill saddam and bad guys for you
IRAQIS.......yes please we hate him he tortures and kills us and we want our country back
YANKS/BRITS.....ok hes gone now we will sort the country out and install a democratic government for you, release your oil and make the country wealthy and accepted by the world community again
IRAQIS.......we hate yanks..we hate brits...kill kill kill

if i was in sole charge i would adopt a shoot first ask questions later policy...

Mark W · 25-09-2003, 19:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Atomic22
YANKS/BRITS.....hi iraqis we kill saddam and bad guys for you
IRAQIS.......yes please we hate him he tortures and kills us and we want our country back
YANKS/BRITS.....ok hes gone now we will sort the country out and install a democratic government for you, release your oil and make the country wealthy and accepted by the world community again
IRAQIS.......we hate yanks..we hate brits...kill kill kill

if i was in sole charge i would adopt a shoot first ask questions later policy...

ummm....i think they might be a little annoyed that we invaded their country promising to 'save' them for the hard life they were 'suffering' under saddam.
only since we invaded, we have killed loads of their family members, wrecked their entire infrastructure, broken down law and order, destroyed any semblance of govt - basically took their country back 70/100 years..... and they are supposed to be humbly grateful for this?

Atomic22 · 25-09-2003, 19:46

yes
they wanted democracy and rid of the tyrannical rule...as for law and order they are breaking it not us and any people killed since the war ended have been because of attacks on us and not because of any other reason

darkangel · 25-09-2003, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Atomic22
yes
they wanted democracy and rid of the tyrannical rule...as for law and order they are breaking it not us and any people killed since the war ended have been because of attacks on us and not because of any other reason

they didn't ask for our help!

Xaccers · 25-09-2003, 19:55

We haven't wrecked their entire infrastructure, it was done long before by the Iraqi's.
There wasn't a gov as you and I know it, it was a dictatorship. The schools didn't get painted, the roads didn't get serviced, the electricity network and oil wells were left to rot.

Now the electricity network is being rebuilt, the oil wells are getting their much needed investment, water and gas pipes are being repaired.
Supply lines are being set up.
And the Iraqi's are finally able to vote for who they want to govern them

And yes we were asked to help, we were asked to help when Bush senior was in charge and because of the UN restrictions thousands of Shiites were murdered when the US wasn't allowed to go in and support them in ousting Saddam
Since then there have been many calls for foreign help, but the media hasn't carried it, and of course, people in Iraq didn't tend to last long if they spoke out.

25-09-2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by darkangel
they didn't ask for our help!

HAHA they didn't dare

Atomic22 · 25-09-2003, 20:11

Quote:

Originally posted by darkangel
they didn't ask for our help!

they asked for it all right...and they got it......

darkangel · 25-09-2003, 20:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Xaccers
We haven't wrecked their entire infrastructure, it was done long before by the Iraqi's.
There wasn't a gov as you and I know it, it was a dictatorship. The schools didn't get painted, the roads didn't get serviced, the electricity network and oil wells were left to rot.

good point 11 years of UN dithering did 99% of the damaged that has been done to Iraq

Xaccers · 25-09-2003, 20:39

Quote:

Originally posted by darkangel
good point 11 years of UN dithering did 99% of the damaged that has been done to Iraq

So Saddam and his followers had nothing to do with it then?

But you are right, if they had been more decisive and acted sooner so many lives could have been saved.
It would probably have helped with the Israel/Palestine troubles and done a lot to improve the US' image in the area.

darkangel · 25-09-2003, 21:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Xaccers
So Saddam and his followers had nothing to do with it then?

But you are right, if they had been more decisive and acted sooner so many lives could have been saved.
It would probably have helped with the Israel/Palestine troubles and done a lot to improve the US' image in the area.

never said that Saddam had not hand in the problems Iraq has now but for over 11 years Iraq was battered by sanctions while the UN made mandate after mandate which Saddam broke every time if the UN had acted more decisively at the time many more lives would have been saved.
I spent quite a few years in the middle east fighting with and against people there and they will never accept foreign invader Israeli or otherwise even if they come with open arms we did that in India and stayed there for over 300 years they have great reason to be afraid of us being there

25-09-2003, 21:23

Quote:

Originally posted by darkangel

I spent quite a few years in the middle east fighting with and against people there and they will never accept foreign invader Israeli or otherwise even if they come with open arms we did that in India and stayed there for over 300 years they have great reason to be afraid of us being there

Times have changed now and if they carn't see that somethings very wrong.
In someways some of these middle eastern countrys remind me of the way europe used to be 4/5 hundred years ago. Look at the way we used to live and have religion ruling everyone plus religous conflicts and then look at the middle east now