Emigrating and coming back

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 13:25

I have a relative who's now late 40's early 50's and he emigrated about 18 years ago to South America. Anyway the background was he was in his local pub one night about 20 years ago when two young South American female students with all their baggage arrived looking for accomodation after a let down/mix up, where they were supposed to be staying.

As he only had a one bedroom flat with a four poster bed, he offered hiis services straight away. (he used to be my idol) the two females took the offer and moved in with him. He ended up emigrating to South America with one of them and getting married, this proved to be a successful marraige as far as I am aware with a few offsprings. Recently though things have taken a turn for the worse and he has found himself on his own lonely with very little money, as he felt homesick he decided on the spur of the moment to come back home to Wales.

He went along to the local council and benefit office to try and get a roof over his head, he wasn't fussy anything would do. I don't have any sympathy because I believ you make your own bed and lie in it, but he was told "Sorry, we will not give you any help you are not entitled to anything. We have registered your claim you will have to come back in 6 months"
He asked how he was supposed to live, as he had worked all his life and didn't intend sponging off the state he just needed a bit of a hand to get on his feet. They said "get a job, and come back in 6 months time"
He is now labouring on a building site in London, and in a bed sit until he can find a job in Wales.

As I said, I have little sympathy even though he is a relative. but it does go to show, how anyone emigrating should pray all goes to plan. If you come back to this country skint you will find yourself in a que behind all the foreigners who were not born here or have never paid a penny into the system!

gooner4life · 03-01-2005, 13:38

Cant he go and marry t'other one now? either way I bet that night long ago was worth it 2 Latin American students :drools: :hehe:

Bifta · 03-01-2005, 13:41

If you emmigrate it's got bugger all to do with the state, it's your own choice so why should they fund you if you decide to come back? As I recall, many years ago long before the influx of 'foreigners' that we see today the rules were still the same, you leave your job, tough! Asylum seekers generally flee their own country to escape potential torture or death and imo deserve some kind of aid to get them on their feet.

MovedGoalPosts · 03-01-2005, 13:45

It is a difficult one, but Bifta is right, he is effectively an economic migrant not an asylum seeker (even though the latter appears to be somewhat abused in recent years, but that is another thread). He may have paid into the system with earnings, but for the last 20 years that wasn't this country's system. He may in fact have been better off with whatever welfare is offerred in South America (don't know anything about that). This does however go to show that we must all make provision for a rainy day, if at all possible.

ikthius · 03-01-2005, 13:45

you mentioned that he had made his bed and must lie in it, now he is making another bed or changing the sheets so to speak.

he is trying to get on with his life.

ik

aliferste · 03-01-2005, 13:57

Got to agree with previous posts. Dont know why you are bringing asylum seekers in to it. These days they seem to get brought in to everything woe that people have though. As he is now an economic migrant if they gave him a house and cash Im pretty sure you would be moaning about that as well.

Why dont you put him up.......blood is thicker than water and all that!!

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

Got to agree with previous posts. Dont know why you are bringing asylum seekers in to it. These days they seem to get brought in to everything woe that people have though. As he is now an economic migrant if they gave him a house and cash Im pretty sure you would be moaning about that as well.

Why dont you put him up.......blood is thicker than water and all that!!

As I stated in my post "I have no sympathy" Although I understand he has had bit of a tough time recently and that was the main reson he decided to come back.

As he is part of a large family (one of 11 children) there is no problem getting a roof over his head, unfortunately he had to take the first job he could find and that was in London.

I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

Apparently that not so according to our local authority, In his own words his best chance would of been to throw a brick through the window of the police station!

Edit: spelling mistakes(some of them)

Bifta · 03-01-2005, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

So for nearly 20 years he pays absolutely nothing towards this country and you think he's entitled to some form of social welfare when he get's back?

aliferste · 03-01-2005, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

Ahhhh, so he is still a UK citizen? Sorry bout that, I thought you meant he had given up his citizenship.
I would have thought he would be entitled to some form of housing as he is/was "technically" homeless.
Anyway, he has a job and somewhere to live so everything is ok. Whereas someone seeking asylum cannot look for a job and has to take what housing is given to them.....usually in the worst estates (which they are gratefull for)

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

So for nearly 20 years he pays absolutely nothing towards this country and you think he's entitled to some form of social welfare when he get's back?

Oh, dont think I agree that he should be given anything. As I said he made his choice to leave!

All I was doing was relating the story, although the only thing I can say in his defence was from the age of leaving school at 16 to the time in his early-mid thirties he worked without ever claiming benefits. I can only think of one non-genuine scrounger in our family who doesn't work through choice.

I would of thought most regulars around here would by know I disagree with scroungers, no matter what country, colour or race...I dont even like a scrounger if they are a family member.

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

Ahhhh, so he is still a UK citizen? Sorry bout that, I thought you meant he had given up his citizenship.
I would have thought he would be entitled to some form of housing as he is/was "technically" homeless.
Anyway, he has a job and somewhere to live so everything is ok. Whereas someone seeking asylum cannot look for a job and has to take what housing is given to them.....usually in the worst estates (which they are gratefull for)

Thats what I was getting at about housing, he arrived here without letting anyone know he was coming and I think it was a mixture of being embaressed and not wanting to impose himself on family members. He would of been happy being placed in a bedsit, but the council and benefits office would not help for six months. So I guess he would also of been happy to accept a house on the worst estate until he could find a job and move into rented accomodation elsewhere.

I just thought the council wouldn't throw you out on the street like that if you were homeless and technically a UK citizen.

murfitUK · 03-01-2005, 16:30

He needs to find out why he has been refused help. From what I've read, the council and benefits agency are probably trying to say that he is not "habitually resident" in the UK.

It is a condition that all applicants for housing must be habitually resident and have a right to reside. The substantive legislation for this changed in May 2004 when the 10 new countries joined the EU.

A UK citizen has a right to reside in the UK, but still has to be habitually resident. I would agree that he is no longer habitually resident given the length of time he has been out of the country. However, there is one category of applicant that is automatically habitually resident - someone who returns to the UK to resume a previous period of habitual residence. If he was habitually resident before he left all those years ago, then he is returning to resume the period of HR. This means he is eligible.

He should get the council's decision in writing and then challenge them that they have misinterpreted the rules for habitual residence.

On the other hand, the council might be saying that he is habitually resident (eligible) but does not have a priority need for accommodation. That is a different matter! (Your are in priority need if you: are pregnant, have dependent children, have serious illness/disability, considered to be vulnerable etc).

Or maybe they accept he is eligible, in priority need, but has become homeless intentionally for giving up accommodation without securing suitable alternative accommodation and it was reasonable to expect him to have remained in that accommodation.

Them's the rules - whatever your views about people coming into the country and claiming welfare assistance.

How sad am I? It's a Bank Holiday. I have a day off. Yet I am talking about work.

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by murfitUK

He needs to find out why he has been refused help. From what I've read, the council and benefits agency are probably trying to say that he is not "habitually resident" in the UK.

It is a condition that all applicants for housing must be habitually resident and have a right to reside. The substantive legislation for this changed in May 2004 when the 10 new countries joined the EU.

A UK citizen has a right to reside in the UK, but still has to be habitually resident. I would agree that he is no longer habitually resident given the length of time he has been out of the country. However, there is one category of applicant that is automatically habitually resident - someone who returns to the UK to resume a previous period of habitual residence. If he was habitually resident before he left all those years ago, then he is returning to resume the period of HR. This means he is eligible.

He should get the council's decision in writing and then challenge them that they have misinterpreted the rules for habitual residence.

On the other hand, the council might be saying that he is habitually resident (eligible) but does not have a priority need for accommodation. That is a different matter! (Your are in priority need if you: are pregnant, have dependent children, have serious illness/disability, considered to be vulnerable etc).

Or maybe they accept he is eligible, in priority need, but has become homeless intentionally for giving up accommodation without securing suitable alternative accommodation and it was reasonable to expect him to have remained in that accommodation.

Them's the rules - whatever your views about people coming into the country and claiming welfare assistance.

How sad am I? It's a Bank Holiday. I have a day off. Yet I am talking about work.

Thanks for that info, I will pass it on. He was born and lived in this country fro about 30 years before he emigrated. I guess he needs to clear up the reason why the council refused help.

Bifta · 03-01-2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I just thought the council wouldn't throw you out on the street like that if you were homeless and technically a UK citizen.

Have the council thrown him out or has he made himself (as mentioned a post up) intentionally homeless? The whole point is .. it's his own fault, not the councils, not the benefits agencies and not the governments.

Escapee · 03-01-2005, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

Have the council thrown him out or has he made himself (as mentioned a post up) intentionally homeless? The whole point is .. it's his own fault, not the councils, not the benefits agencies and not the governments.

The council have refused to help, saying he needs to come back to them in 6 months time. I cant go into his peronal details about why he left South America here, but it was difficult for him to stay. (no, he didn't commit any crimes) after his wife filed for divorce.

As I said, I'm not altering my views because he is a family member, I just found it strange that someone with a UK passport is told to go away and get a job then come back in six months. If I was in that situation coming back into this country but without much money it would be now I would need a hand and not in six months time, because I would at least be working and living in rented accomodation by then.