Do you want this government out?

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

No it's your persecution complex as noted elsewhere by other people but believe what you will. If it's not me persecuting you it's a rude Virgin Media technician or another poster on here or elsewhere.

Jobs are actually being created, the quality of those jobs in terms of conditions and pay is the kicker though.

So do you really think in the present climate as it is, someone disabled, very ill, sick, can't guarantee that they will turn up every day, has to go hospital very often has the same chance at those jobs as those that have just come out of a job. Really what chance do these people have?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by peanut

So do you really think in the present climate as it is, someone disabled, very ill, sick, can't guarantee that they will turn up every day, has to go hospital very often has the same chance at those jobs as those that have just come out of a job. Really what chance do these people have?

Where did I even loosely suggest or imply that I thought that?

That question, loaded as it is, is obviously ridiculous. Obviously someone whose health is that precarious shouldn't be troubled with the requirement to work but should be receiving assistance to get well, or at least as comfortable as possible.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Where did I even loosely suggest or imply that I thought that?

That question, loaded as it is, is obviously ridiculous. Obviously someone whose health is that precarious shouldn't be troubled with the requirement to work but should be receiving assistance to get well, or at least as comfortable as possible.

So you don't see what really is happening. Those that are sick are being pushed back into work, they won't stand a chance of finding employment. (This is what Welshchris and I is saying).

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by peanut

So you don't see what really is happening. Those that are sick are being pushed back into work, they won't stand a chance of finding employment. (This is what Welshchris and I is saying).

I'm not denying this will sadly happen in some cases, however there will be many who are not at all sick, it's likely things will go too far in the opposite direction before being brought back into order.

Blame the two previous governments for being more interested in the employment figures than actual employment

Ignitionnet i am afraid to say many terminal people have been classed as fit to work by ATOS and many others with serious medical problems that are not terminal also have been classed as fit for work even though they have no practical chance of work. Atos is completely unfit for purpose they recieve bonuses for getting people off benefit even though 70%+ of their decisions are reversed on appeal the torment they cause to people is very real and very damaging.

They are an integral part of the whole benefit system reform with everyone on incap being sent back to them for asssessment which can be carried out by nurses and even medical receptionists. I have never denied there needs to be reform of the benefit system i have said many times on here we need to strike a better balance between providing for those in genuine need and the taxpayer having the security that their taxes are not going to workshy lazy gits.

We all know well most of us that inhabit reality that we need to take serious measures to eliminate our national debt but the way the most vulnerable are being targetted at the minute is leaving a pretty nasty taste in my mouth. This government like many in the country as a whole i don't think realises how badly ATOS operates you yourself clearly know little about how incompetent they are so i am not surprised many support what they do.

There are many areas of public spending other then welfare that saw massive rises under labour where money could be cut without too drastic an affect on the public but we seem to be seeing cuts where they are doing a lot of damage. Also maybe i have missed it but i havnt seen anything on hitting the absolutely huge tax evasion that goes on in the UK costing the country as much as the welfare budget surely if things are so bad we should be chasing that as well.

[Ignitionnet]

Little time to deal with things Rizzy but the whole 'tax evasion' thing is quite badly overstated and being dealt with as much as is feasible. Before bemoaning the UK not collecting taxes do bear in mind where most of these will come from - end consumers. Increase company costs by changing tax regulations and they will simply increase their prices to compensate, as they would for any other cost.

ATOS does indeed sound completely unfit for purpose.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Certainly not from the lot that LOST the last election. They'd sell their grannies out to try and get back into power and finally ruin the country.

and you think it only applies to one party only?

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

ignition he may not have told the media or its entirely possible the media may not have been interested.

Yeah atos is actually costing the state a lot of money, these lost appeals are expensive. so it is noone's interest for them to take place at all.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

It just goes to prove how thick and stupid this government is, when they are considering a u turn on defence cuts.

This country MUST have the armed services at full strength, otherwise we can be targeted at any time, We now have the Libby thing, when you think that it had hit this country twice, Firsly our armed services are in several countries, now we have them in Libby.

And then we have the police services on stanby in case of any aggro in this country.

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

No it's your persecution complex as noted elsewhere by other people but believe what you will. If it's not me persecuting you it's a rude Virgin Media technician or another poster on here or elsewhere. Anyone with a PC costing well into 4 figures who is on long term sick would give a moment of pause.

Noteworthy is that I didn't actually pick on you I merely said that you seem to be doing ok I didn't make any claim about being in the lap of luxury.

Onto the topic in hand jobs are actually being created, the quality of those jobs in terms of conditions and pay is the kicker though.

no u didnt pick on me its just that u happened to SUDDENLY make the thread all about me when i posted and u didnt do it to anyone else yeah fair comment i believe u

Let's move away from individuals and back to the topic, please.

[Welshchris]

Thanks Hugh

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

no u didnt pick on me its just that u happened to SUDDENLY make the thread all about me when i posted and u didnt do it to anyone else yeah fair comment i believe u

My apologies if you felt that way, I've been 'picking' on Arthur throughout the thread though and making it about me also as that's the best way I can think of to phrase my argument on this issue. It's a big issue however most of us will feel the impact most keenly as individuals and things are sometimes best phrased as such.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

It just goes to prove how thick and stupid this government is, when they are considering a u turn on defence cuts.

This country MUST have the armed services at full strength, otherwise we can be targeted at any time, We now have the Libby thing, when you think that it had hit this country twice, Firsly our armed services are in several countries, now we have them in Libby.

And then we have the police services on stanby in case of any aggro in this country.

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

Depends, you could consider it as opening the gob before thinking or doing something most unusual for recent politics and listening to people and experts and taking their opinions on board.

We are not going to need the armed forces at full strength else we could be targeted at any time, we are a member of NATO and a nuclear power, the biggest threats to us are, by far, from terrorism. Any country that declares war on us by default declares war on a huge swathe of the free world with masses of conventional forces and over 12,000 nuclear weapons as we have a mutual defence pact with them.

Spending less isn't always bad you know. Depends entirely on how it's spent.

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

My apologies if you felt that way, I've been 'picking' on Arthur throughout the thread though and making it about me also as that's the best way I can think of to phrase my argument on this issue. It's a big issue however most of us will feel the impact most keenly as individuals and things are sometimes best phrased as such.[COLOR="Silver"]

No offence its nothing about the way i feel, a number of people on here, Thinkbroadband, Virginmedia forums and also when the VM Newsgroups were going picked up it was just me u would target so its nothing to do with having any sort of complex a number have noticed the same thing but as the mod said lets bring this back onto track.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

It just goes to prove how thick and stupid this government is, when they are considering a u turn on defence cuts.

This country MUST have the armed services at full strength, otherwise we can be targeted at any time, We now have the Libby thing, when you think that it had hit this country twice, Firsly our armed services are in several countries, now we have them in Libby.

And then we have the police services on stanby in case of any aggro in this country.

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

Like Labour spent without thinking.

---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

It just goes to prove how thick and stupid this government is, when they are considering a u turn on defence cuts.

This country MUST have the armed services at full strength, otherwise we can be targeted at any time, We now have the Libby thing, when you think that it had hit this country twice, Firsly our armed services are in several countries, now we have them in Libby.

And then we have the police services on stanby in case of any aggro in this country.

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

Arthur

How old are you really ???

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

Sorry but..... Pot - Kettle - Black springs to mind... (Well, actually - I am not sorry)