Students Rioting in London.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Osem

I was going to pass around the festive mince pies but I think some paracetamol might be more useful for the pain induced by protracted

If I wasn't working later on, and possibly driving a 8 year old van that shouldn't exist in Flyboy World, I'd need a stiff drink.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Sirius

O come on Derick you expect the 2 Ronnie's to believe that without you producing evidence and answering the standard amount of additional extra questions. However as is the norm don't expect any answers back to your questions.

If Derek was to ask any questions, I am sure they would get answered.

I have taken a leaf out of the flyboy school of debating and decided not to answer any of his question until he decides to start answering those put to him.

What real questions have you asked?

]BTW where are the 2 Ronnie's

Who?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

No, it hasn't been filled in at all, but then it does look as though it has been there for a number years.

perhaps the writing has faded with age -how long does it take for the elements to fade out ink ?.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek

If I wasn't working later on, and possibly driving a 8 year old van that shouldn't exist in Flyboy World, I'd need a stiff drink.

Yeah but is it entirely empty???

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

If Derek was to ask any questions, I am sure they would get answered.

Well there would be a first time for everything.

[Osem]

Let's try to keep within the realms of probability shall we...

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I must admit I didn't see any "kit" still inside the vehicle, I will have to take your word for it that it was there. What kit, in particular, are you referring to?

From this video about 55 seconds in there are people beside the van with riot helmets (including valid MP markings) and riot shields. So either they brought them along with them or they nicked them from the van.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So the police are smart enough to deploy a knackered old decoy van (filled with riot control equipment) to entrap the students/activists/rioters/protesters/anarchists/innocent passerbys (please select subset of your choice), but stupid enough to leave a "Police Aware" sticker on the van which shows it was previously an abandoned vehicle.......

Imagine the scene at the pre-deployment meeting, if you will......

Sergeant - "OK, we've found an old police van, which was left abandoned at the side of the road by Sutton police, we've filled it full of expensive riot control gear, and we've agreed where we going to leave it to make sure chummy wrecks it, ensuring a positive propaganda message for the Met"

PC with more than one GCSE - "Erm, Sarge - there's a big yellow sticker above the front window saying "Police Aware" - won't that give the game away that it's a set-up, and foil our cunning plan?".

Sergeant -"Absolutely right, Brains* - remind me to remove it before we abandon the vehicle".

PC "Brains" - "Erm, Sarge - wouldn't it be better to remove it now, when we have time, rather than in the middle of a huge crowd where people might notice/photograph/film us doing it, or even worse, where we might forget?"

Sergeant - "Well, La-de-da-deh PC Brains with more than one GCSE - what sort of moron would be stupid enough to set up an entrapment scenario that will be filmed by multiple TV crews (as well as anyone with a mobile phone) and leave a big sticker on the van?"

Amazing how the police are cunning/stupid, dependent on which scenario one wants supported at the time, isn't it?

*Brains - apparently, the de-facto nickname given to any constable who has more than one GCSE (or so we are led to believe......).

But the sticker has clearly been on that van for a very long time. I can't see senior officers allowing it to appear on a serviceable vehicle, can you?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek

From this video about 55 seconds in there are people beside the van with riot helmets (including valid MP markings) and riot shields. So either they brought them along with them or they nicked them from the van.

Yeah but, given previous events, what possible use could the police have for a van packed full of riot gear during a major protest in the centre of London? Surely an entirely empty old van put there simply to antagonise all those decent, law abiding protestors into becoming an unruly mob would be of far more use....

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The van had been vandalised for a couple of hours - I don't think they thought "must avoid the sticker", do you?

That sticker is not "riot" damaged. Those marks have accumulated over a number of moths, perhaps years.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

As already quoted by Hugh but I'll repeat it for a giggle.



There was also valid tax on the vehicle, they are hardly likely to find an old van, fill it with gear, tax it and then forget about the whacking great sticker on the front.

I could not see an RFL on the van nor could could I see wthere it wasn't there either, the footage shown in that link is inconclusive as far as number plates are concerend. But I have not seen that livery on a Met vehicle for many years.

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

From this video about 55 seconds in there are people beside the van with riot helmets (including valid MP markings) and riot shields. So either they brought them along with them or they nicked them from the van.

One helmet and two shields do not constitute it being "packed full of riot gear," does it. It could be argued that it was left there as "debris."

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But the sticker has clearly been on that van for a very long time. I can't see senior officers allowing it to appear on a serviceable vehicle, can you?

I can't see senior officers personally checking out every van before they leave the yard. In fact I can't see senior officers remotely caring about a sticker as long as it isn't insulting or inappropriate.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I could not see an RFL on the van nor could could I see wthere it wasn't there either, the footage shown in that link is inconclusive as far as number plates are concerend. But I have not seen that livery on a Met vehicle for many years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8iZ...eature=related

5 seconds in. Lower nearside of the windscreen. Small, red, round. Looks a hell of a lot like a tax disc to me.

I have, I don't even live in London. There is this marvellous invention called television. On it you can sometimes see events happening hundreds, even thousands, of miles away.

Recently I saw some big demonstrations in London. I saw a lot of Police vans, some had the current Met colours on them, some were older and had the 'old' Met colours.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

One helmet and two shields do not constitute it being "packed full of gear," does it. It could be argued that it was left there as "debris."

Seriously?

First of all you deny there was anything in the van. Now when its proved there was items in the van stolen by the mob you claim they might have been 'overlooked'

NATO helmets are personal issue, they aren't just left in vans when they go in for servicing.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek

I can't see senior officers personally checking out every van before they leave the yard. In fact I can't see senior officers remotely caring about a sticker as long as it isn't insulting or inappropriate.

Come on now, that sticker had been there for a very long time, I don't think even you could deny that. I don't suppose you could give us an idea as to why it was there. If it was there from a previous incident, there had been plenty of opportunity to remove from a serviceable vehicle. I can't see that they would have kept a van like that just in case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8iZ...eature=related

5 seconds in. Lower nearside of the windscreen. Small, red, round. Looks a hell of a lot like a tax disc to me.

It just looks like a sticker to me. If it is an RFL, what is the expiry date?

I have, I don't even live in London. There is this marvellous invention called television. On it you can sometimes see events happening hundreds, even thousands, of miles away.

Recently I saw some big demonstrations in London. I saw a lot of Police vans, some had the current Met colours on them, some were older and had the 'old' Met colours.

I can't say I have seen much footage of demonstrations in London, but when I have been to London, which is about twice a month, I have never seen a current police vehicle with the old livery on.

Seriously?

First of all you deny there was anything in the van. Now when its proved there was items in the van stolen by the mob you claim they might have been 'overlooked'

NATO helmets are personal issue, they aren't just left in vans when they go in for servicing.

Excuse me?????? When did I do that?

This vehicle was not in for a service. I don't think they service these vehicle in the middle of demonstrations. Nonetheless, would it have been too much trouble for them to leave a spare helmet and two shields in the van?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Come on now, that sticker had been there for a very long time, I don't think even you could deny that. I don't suppose you could give us an idea as to why it was there.

Quite simply the Police have far more important things to deal with than an old sticker on a rarely used vehicle. Plenty of forces who assist the met with mutual aid have their own unofficial sticker on their riot vans that seem to last through services without being removed.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

It just looks like a sticker to me. If it is an RFL, what is the expiry date?

I give up. Instead I'll just admit that the van, which we have already demonstrated had a valid number plate, was being driven, and is of a similar age to other vans used by the Met in London didn't have a valid tax disc but instead they decided to put a small red sticker, almost exactly the same size as a tax disc, in the same place a tax disc is stuck and no-one has picked up that it wasn't actually a RFL.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Nonetheless, would it have been too much trouble for them to leave a spare helmet and two shields in the van?

Well when they are PERSONAL ISSUE (i.e. each cop has their own, with their own ID on it) then yes it would be too much trouble to leave it in a van.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Derek

Quite simply the Police have far more important things to deal with than an old sticker on a rarely used vehicle. Plenty of forces who assist the met with mutual aid have their own unofficial sticker on their riot vans that seem to last through services without being removed.



I give up. Instead I'll just admit that the van, which we have already demonstrated had a valid number plate, was being driven, and is of a similar age to other vans used by the Met in London didn't have a valid tax disc but instead they decided to put a small red sticker, almost exactly the same size as a tax disc, in the same place a tax disc is stuck and no-one has picked up that it wasn't actually a RFL.



Well when they are PERSONAL ISSUE (i.e. each cop has their own, with their own ID on it) then yes it would be too much trouble to leave it in a van.

what post was the picture of the number plate in -i seem to have missed that ??[ just to save me searching for hours ]