20mph is just the start.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I didn’t say it was impossible, and it depends on how much traffic there is on the road. But it’s certainly more difficult to cross with so much traffic bunched up and moving. I have seen this many times near our local schools.

The increased pollution from slow moving cars should also be taken into account.

And your solution is to allow people to drive faster?

Yes, and if you read the newspapers, you will soon see how that’s going down in Wales.

Now the reality of blanket 20mph limit is hitting home, the lesson is to be careful what you vote for.

If the people of Wales vote for someone else at the next Welsh election. Otherwise between now and then I’ll file it under minor issues that energise old, angry, white men to distract them from the incompetence of the Conservative government.

I’m really surprised at the number of Conservatives on here supporting big Government diktats. Surely these decisions are better made in local communities, by local decision makers, at local councils?

As for pollution I think you’d have to be pretty gullible to think there’s any meaningful difference. We are leading the world don’t cha know?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...8&postcount=28

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Boris was a big fan of 20MPH zones - he introduced them as London Mayor.

I know, and it was a bad idea.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But it’s certainly more difficult to cross with so much traffic bunched up and moving. I have seen this many times near our local schools.

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested. Win-win.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Now the reality of blanket 20mph limit is hitting home, the lesson is to be careful what you vote for.

Wales does not have a blanket 20mph limit. They have simply changed the default. If local authorities want to apply a 30mph limit to a road, they can, just like they could previously apply 20mph where appropriate.

As it happens, the residential roads in my area have had 20mph limits for years. It's a non-event. It makes no significant difference to journey times because those roads are only a small proportion of a typical journey, and I have no difficulty crossing the road(!)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I know, and it was a bad idea.

Can you source a post where you actually said that at the time?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested. Win-win.


Wales does not have a blanket 20mph limit. They have simply changed the default. If local authorities want to apply a 30mph limit to a road, they can, just like they could previously apply 20mph where appropriate.

As it happens, the residential roads in my area have had 20mph limits for years. It's a non-event. It makes no significant difference to journey times because those roads are only a small proportion of a typical journey, and I have no difficulty crossing the road(!)

The anti-car brigade think that by making life difficult for motorists, they will abandon their cars, but the evidence doesn’t support that. The lack of parking spaces and other measures being introduced just result in the roads being more congested. That’s what we have found around here.

As I said, it’s the blanket imposition of the 20mph that is wrong. Put it where it’s needed, yes, but not all the residential roads. There is no case for that justifying such an extreme measure.

One useful suggestion that jfman has made is to have more pedestrian crossings. That is likely to be a much more acceptable solution for most people and would improve road safety.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Can you source a post where you actually said that at the time?

Maybe not in a post, but I have been against the proliferation of 20mph limits and speed humps for many years. The Welsh solution, which other local authorities seem to be dribbling with great enthusiasm to implement themselves, is a stretch too far.

Can you source a previous post on here where you were in support of the Welsh government introducing this measure before this thread was started? It doesn’t really matter whether you can or can’t. The forum is a place to express your views.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Can you source a previous post on here where you were in support of the Welsh government introducing this measure before this thread was started? It doesn’t really matter whether you can or can’t. The forum is a place to express your views.

No, because that’s not the point I’m making (nor one I’ve ever made so wouldn’t claim to have done so).

It 100% matters if you claim to sincerely hold a strong view that on the evidence available nobody can find a single example if you mentioning before the current “war on the motorist” became Conservative propaganda.

It also rings incredibly hollow your faux concerns around pollution given your many posts on the matter downplaying the issue.

Is there any evidence to support your claim people will “abandon” their cars in areas of 20mph limits versus those in 30mph limits? I’m more likely to think people will abandon their cars because of the biggest real terms drop in living standards since World War 2 but that’s probably my unconscious bias towards economics.

[Mr K]

The problem is also the is the increasing number of cars. 5 million more on the road now than in 2000.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

Every adult in a household now seems to need one. Front gardens have been paved over to make more parking space for several vehicles. . We seem to have forgotten how to use legs/ get on a bus ( and we're getting fatter for some reason).

Don't think it's an anti motorist country it's an anti anything that gets in my way country. Hence the frustration with speed limits /congestion.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

No, because that’s not the point I’m making (nor one I’ve ever made so wouldn’t claim to have done so).

It 100% matters if you claim to sincerely hold a strong view that on the evidence available nobody can find a single example if you mentioning before the current “war on the motorist” became Conservative propaganda.

It also rings incredibly hollow your faux concerns around pollution given your many posts on the matter downplaying the issue.

Is there any evidence to support your claim people will “abandon” their cars in areas of 20mph limits versus those in 30mph limits? I’m more likely to think people will abandon their cars because of the biggest real terms drop in living standards since World War 2 but that’s probably my unconscious bias towards economics.

Once again, you are responding to arguments I haven’t made. The pollution issue is one of the reasons to justify the lower speed limit. Whether I believe that we should reduce pollution is irrelevant, although of course I am. It’s the link to climate change I am sceptical about.

I didn’t say that people would abandon their cars, did I? I said that this was the goal of the anti-car brigade.

You really must learn to read posts properly and dampen your fervent imagination.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Once again, you are responding to arguments I haven’t made. The pollution issue is one of the reasons to justify the lower speed limit. Whether I believe that we should reduce pollution is irrelevant, although of course I am. It’s the link to climate change I am sceptical about.

I didn’t say that people would abandon their cars, did I? I said that this was the goal of the anti-car brigade.

You really must learn to read posts properly and dampen your fervent imagination.

Your entire argument is irrelevant if even you don’t believe it, OB.

It merely confirms by suspicion that you are parroting lines from CCHQ rather than sincerely held beliefs that you think will make their lives better for the ordinary, hard working, British people who are having their living standards decimated by Conservative incompetence.

If Sunak came out the other way earlier in the week you absolutely would not be here arguing the points you are making today.

[OLD BOY]

You’ve done it again! The pollution argument has been put forward by others - I was just commenting that reducing speeds to 20mph will increase pollution.

The remainder of your comments are just plain wrong. There’s no point in discussing anything with you, you’re just argumentative for the sake of it.

I’ll let you have the last word and people can make up their own minds.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested. Win-win.


Wales does not have a blanket 20mph limit. They have simply changed the default. If local authorities want to apply a 30mph limit to a road, they can, just like they could previously apply 20mph where appropriate.

If only they would , my journey to my local supermarket is , 500 yards 20mph traffic lights ( t junction) 20mph 600 yards , traffic lights ( cross roads )30 mph 35yds , traffic lights 30 mph . 50yds roundabout 20mph off it 500yds 30mph . Traffic lights T-junction turn 20mph . If you carried on you go to 20mph the after 10 yds then back to 30 mph and yet more traffic lights

Originally Posted by spiderplant

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested.

It wont, because a 30mph speed limit is not the reason.
Our local school as had speed reducing measures (roads humps) for years, and it hasnt reduced the number of cars, they have increased.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested. Win-win.

)

It depends on the location and the particular problems evident in the locality. Here, it’s both.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I didn’t say it was impossible, and it depends on how much traffic there is on the road. But it’s certainly more difficult to cross with so much traffic bunched up and moving. I have seen this many times near our local schools.

The increased pollution from slow moving cars should also be taken into account.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------



Yes, and if you read the newspapers, you will soon see how that’s going down in Wales.

Now the reality of blanket 20mph limit is hitting home, the lesson is to be careful what you vote for.

As posted on Page 3 of this thread, this is shown to be counterfactual…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Your entire argument is irrelevant if even you don’t believe it, OB.

It merely confirms by suspicion that you are parroting lines from CCHQ rather than sincerely held beliefs that you think will make their lives better for the ordinary, hard working, British people who are having their living standards decimated by Conservative incompetence.

If Sunak came out the other way earlier in the week you absolutely would not be here arguing the points you are making today.

You’re just being a pixie, John - so as to provoke OB. Where did you get the CCHQ crap from? Please do better.