Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

he is my MP, will drop him a letter, i am in brum tonight in a hotel, so plenty of time to email him and suggest if he want i can meet to explain more

just sent the below via theyworkforyou, now wait and see what comes back

thanks to inphomationdesk for the template

peter

**************************

Dear Derek Wyatt,

As one of your constituents I would like to draw your attention to the issue of privacy related to a new advertising system called BT WebWise and it is promoted by a company called “Phorm�, this system may soon be utilised by Internet Service Providers in this country. BT have already done 'secret' (and illegal!) trials in 2006 and 2007.

Virgin Media and Talk Talk are currently in talks with Phorm with a view to introducing the system later this year.

The technology which causes greatest concern is that of Deep Packet Inspection and its use by an advertising company. This unit is installed by Phorm but gifted to the ISP to circumvent data protection act issue of a third party processing data on the ISP's network - the ISP has no access to it so cannot test, check or verify anything about the unit - and it inspects every packet of data which passes through it whether the customer is opted in or out this is shown on the BT network diagram (if opted out the customer is just not served adverts).

The alleged idea of this technology is to read ALL internet activity by a customer and use the information to better target on-line advertising. However, there are grave concerns over the method of encoding used to keep user’s details anonymous and over the level of permission needed for this software to install itself and begin running.

Everyone who works from home, be they home workers or members of Parliament or anyone in-between would find their data being subjected to the kind of inspection only intended for law enforcement activities and which would only ever be available to a judge following due legal process. Confidential material worked on by yourself or your colleagues, critically confidential business, personal or even security information could well be intercepted and examined. This includes constituants emails to and from yourself if a constituant uses a web based email service (although phorm do say they have a list of 100 webmail systems they do not look at, but bear in mind that is a small fraction of the number or web mail system out there and they will not publish which ones they are or how to get others added)

I am suspicious of this software, which bears so much similarity to “spyware�, indeed there are reports that some employees of Phorm are former spyware developers. I do not trust these people to have so much unprecedented access to my
internet usage information, my preferences, habits and political views.

if you dig into the background of phorm they changed their name from 121media last year , 121media was responsible for a nasty spyware application called "people on page" which used root kit technology (very difficult to remove as it embeds itself very deeply into windows).

if you dig into Kent Ertugrul (phorms CEO) you find most of his ventures involve collecting personal information on people

if you dig into the programing team behind WebWise you find "The development team for the new software was recruited from Moscow's elite Lebedev Institute of Precision Mechanics and Computer Engineering, a vital part of of the Cold War spying effort and still a centre for developing Russia's 'national security' computer systems." - Mail on Sunday article

the information presented by both phorm and BT to the ICO and HO has been lacking important detail and talked about general principles and there have been a number of news articles exposing these facts, look at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...horm_meetings/ or https://nodpi.org

there is also an early day motion about this by don foster http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDe...px?EDMID=35552

and a petition on the PM's website http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/ with nearly 15,000 signatures since march

i have also asked BT if there are sufficient controls to prevent my children from accepting this service on my behalf and changing my contract with BT (as to accept webwise you have to accept a change to the privacy clause of the contract) as there is no check on the opt-in / opt-out website (which is runn by phorm and at a hosting centre outside the main BT network to ensure the person enacting the initial change to the contract is the account holder as there would be issues allowing phorm (a third party) access to the BT customer database to verify the username and password of the account holder, i have recieved the answer it is my responsibility, this is clearly unacceptable

Feel free to ask for any further information and links.

I would ask that you convey my concerns to the relevant political authorities and ensure that, if Phorm is allowed to progress at all, that hefty restrictions are placed on its ability to intrude on consumer privacy.

I would like permission to post your reply on cable forum ( http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-page-675.html) feel free to come in and join the debate

you will see there has been a lot of information release regarding this under a FOI request on the forum

Yours sincerely,

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Florence

There is conflict of interests and this needs to be highlighted to them. Simon needs to consider his reputation if he fails to declare conflict of interests and brings Phorm into this meeting he is turning his back on all the good work he completed before Phorm bought him.

An image that is worth looking at see if you can spot the difference?

I can tell you all now that Phorm are not involved in the Article 29 working party in any way what so ever because I know for a fact they are not, so don't worry about that.

Alexander Hanff

[icsys]

With regard to the interstitial page, it would be interesting to know what clicking on 'Find out more' will bring up

[popper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo
The Kingston area itself was not targetted. They mean the Kingston RAS. This covers most of of Southern England, parts of Scotland and Wales so guinea pigs could have come from anywhere in the country.

See this post:

Kingston Ras

Originally Posted by Dephormation

I'm sure you're right, but what they told the ICO was the service "will be trialled from 12th March to 16 April in the Kingston area. We will be targetting around 25,000 BT Broadband customers with he aim of getting 10,000 signed up users of the BT Webwise service".

They even tell the ICO "Nothing will change to the way the BT Broadband service is provided today to those customes who do not wish to join the trial" (apart from the fact they will have to carry cookies in every single application to indicate that they didn't want to participate).

Its just gross.

holly molly, people REALLY need to read your linked post
that RAS is covering, so many SERVING EXCHANGEs i lost count after 10 pages, a total of 32 full pages werth, and thats not even counting the seperate peoples homes in each areas that are connected to those SERVING EXCHANGEs connected to that/those Kingston RAS DPI devices.

i was going to copy it here as i find BP really hard to find information without a link somewere else,i even loose the few posts iv made there ,but ill leave that up to you....

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by popper

holly molly, people REALLY need to read your linked post
that RAS is covering, so many SERVING EXCHANGEs i lost count after 10 pages, a total of 32 full pages werth, and thats not even counting the seperate peoples homes in each areas that are connected to those SERVING EXCHANGEs connected to that/those Kingston RAS DPI devices.

i was going to copy it here as i find BP really hard to find information without a link somewere else,i even loose the few posts iv made there ,but ill leave that up to you....

I'll try to get the whole lot scanned and up on Dephormation soon. I'll try to structure it to make the docs accessible. It won't look pretty (I'm tech not graphics!) but I'll try to get the navigation easy to use.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by popper

holly molly, people REALLY need to read your linked post
that RAS is covering, so many SERVING EXCHANGEs i lost count after 10 pages, a total of 32 full pages werth, and thats not even counting the seperate peoples homes in each areas that are connected to those SERVING EXCHANGEs connected to that/those Kingston RAS DPI devices.

i was going to copy it here as i find BP really hard to find information without a link somewere else,i even loose the few posts iv made there ,but ill leave that up to you....

BT really have to be brought to task over this those in high managment need to be removed from control.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

I can tell you all now that Phorm are not involved in the Article 29 working party in any way what so ever because I know for a fact they are not, so don't worry about that.

Alexander Hanff

Alex I really hope they are not asked to go but after reading it in those notes today and since 80/20 are chairing it, trust is not what comes naturally at present.

[kagemusha]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Picture of the interstitial BT planned to use.

Look at the level of information given about profiling, and the size of the [YES] [NO] buttons.

Also confirms, if you delete your cookies, you get prompted to opt in or out again (ie, you CAN'T opt out entirely)

If you live in Kingston, phone BT, ask for your MAC code.

If this document is correct then BT and Phorm are misrepresenting good and services, breaking The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

Specifically

Part 2, Prohibitions. Sub section Misleading Omissions.

6.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading omission if, in its factual context, taking account of the matters in paragraph (2)—
(a) the commercial practice omits material information,
(b) the commercial practice hides material information,
(c) the commercial practice provides material information in a manner which is unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely, or.....

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20081277_en_1

(Thanks to Annie Hall for directing me to the legislation)

[icsys]

Originally Posted by Florence

Alex I really hope they are not asked to go but after reading it in those notes today and since 80/20 are chairing it, trust is not what comes naturally at present.

I believe the EU suggested that Phorm present Webwise to the Article 29 working party "on the basis that it enhances privacy".

Whether that means Phorm themselves present it i'm not sure.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

I'll try to get the whole lot scanned and up on Dephormation soon. I'll try to structure it to make the docs accessible. It won't look pretty (I'm tech not graphics!) but I'll try to get the navigation easy to use.

tech is good, pritty, well thats in the eye as it were, personally id advocate a totally seperate "moobunny" style free form page for BP that gets auto updated with any new posts and subjects as it happens, Seriously it really works for keeping track and looking back as a super low bitrate wayback machine type page ,and the moobunny on page google search link works perfectly with Johns custom MB layout, simple but good.

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/amiga/

you can keep the main part as you do now, just link in a Moobunny style side page somewere and its then easy to see and keep track of 3 days werth of posting.

i must warn you though, the moobunys are rather odd , and dont mention the amiga court case or documents etc

id go as far as to say a simple layout "moobunny" type page with NO pre-registration in any form is a great way to serve the on the fly "low bitrate" live protest posting if someone can make it.

sure you get trolls and bad posts, but on ballance its a good thing not having to register to post first.

[NTLVictim]

Originally Posted by Wildie

so in a nut shell where does everyone stand now?

I'm standing by.

[serial]

Originally Posted by icsys

With regard to the interstitial page, it would be interesting to know what clicking on 'Find out more' will bring up

Probably this page:

http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/how-it-works.php

[Dephormation]

First two batches of docs available to download as PDFs. Let me know if there are any problems;

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...topic.php?6987

[NTLVictim]

Got this PR thing down pat, haven't they?

BT PRscrewup part deux

[Florence]

Originally Posted by icsys

I believe the EU suggested that Phorm present Webwise to the Article 29 working party "on the basis that it enhances privacy".

Whether that means Phorm themselves present it i'm not sure.

Regardless on if phorm present it or they have this information to read with 80/20 thinking chairing thye have to declare the conflict of interests and withdraw from that part or it is expected they will manipulate this meeting to get phorm accepted.

[warescouse]

The more I look at that BT 'consent' form the more angrier I get. If that is really BT's informed consent form to WebWise privacy spying, I hope it will be added to their list of crimes when they finally get their legal comeuppance.

Although I am angry, should I really be surprised?

After all, BT now has the joint experience of Phorm(121Media) and I suspect Phorms experience of how they originally got the uninformed public to allow rootkits and spyware to infest PC's to propagate their old ad spyware network. I personally see little difference in the presentation of this screen and presentation the PeopleOnPage bar.

In my opinion they both could fool the public as to what really happens to to your data and also the real intent of what the public could be agreeing to beforehand.