[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And if he didn't allow them the freedom to dissent, he would have been called a dictator...

That may or not be the case but the reaction to this dissent when compared to the Labour example I cited is very different ..

But Cameron said up front that this would be allowed (and it's still getting lots of press attention) - Corbyn dithered about whether a free vote would be allowed, giving mixed messages.

[Osem]

Corbyn dithered??!!!

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ianch99

That may or not be the case but the reaction to this dissent when compared to the Labour example I cited is very different ..

l think the worry for the Conservative party is how united can they keep over Europe in the next few years because as we all know disunited parties do not go down well with the electorate as the Tories and Labour have found out before.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...tuency-cameron

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...Corn-Laws.html

[j52c]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I seriously think that if Cameron, had got a better deal. Then we would not be discussing this matter.

In or out of the EU, l still feel that we will still trade abroad. Its utter nonsense to suggest major companies will move abroad.

hey move aboard as it is cheaper to recruit staff. Now, isn't that what Britain is doing at the moment.

IF, we are out, then we can control our own borders. and we wont need to have Brussels, telling US, what we can or cannot do in our OWN country

Doesn't Germany export about 9 billion pounds worth of goods to us, add that loss on top of the VW cheating problems where they are selling less cars, then they stand to lose way more than us which could make things very much easier to create a new trade deal.

France will lose millions not selling to us, the farmers there will soon sort it's oliticians again to get trade going with us, in the meantime our farmers will go into full production to supply our supermarkets, can't be a bad thing.

We have a trade deficit with the EU and Germany, in particular, sells a lot of high-value machinery here. There might be some petulant nonentities in the European Parliament that would like to "punish" the UK for leaving, but it's not up to them. The trade arrangements between the UK and the EU would be decided by the Council of Ministers, where Angela Merkel will make damn sure her industrial base continues to enjoy privileged access to our market.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

We have a trade deficit with the EU and Germany, in particular, sells a lot of high-value machinery here. There might be some petulant nonentities in the European Parliament that would like to "punish" the UK for leaving, but it's not up to them. The trade arrangements between the UK and the EU would be decided by the Council of Ministers, where Angela Merkel will make damn sure her industrial base continues to enjoy privileged access to our market.

Indeed, I doubt very much that BMW, Audi, & VW would like to see a levy on put on their goods and would lobby very hard for a free trade deal with the U.K. Not to mention the champagne and wine producers of France.

Anyway all this talk of a conservative split etc is totally irrelevant. It would have mattered if it was a parliamentary vote, but this is a national referendum. 120 odd dissenting MP's means nothing when 50+ million are potentially voting.

[heero_yuy]

It’s because of my work that I say it’s time we leave the EU. We are under the greatest threat since the rise of Hitler’s Nazis.

In the past 20 years I have watched as porous European borders mean migrants and criminals seep into Europe. By the back door they have crossed into Britain.

It is utter naivety to think otherwise. And the most naive people I have ever met are EU luvvies.

Why a criminologist says leave the EU

I just wish the media in general would pace it's self. We have around 5 months before we have to decide...plenty of time to read and research..just not all at once.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Why a criminologist says leave the EU

We need more of this well-balanced, non-emotive, fact based journalism in this debate ... and apparantly, all murders will stop too .. nice:

Jihadis, voodoo, murders, sex trafficking... we can stop them all if we quit EU, says crime expert

Originally Posted by Chris

We have a trade deficit with the EU and Germany, in particular, sells a lot of high-value machinery here. There might be some petulant nonentities in the European Parliament that would like to "punish" the UK for leaving, but it's not up to them. The trade arrangements between the UK and the EU would be decided by the Council of Ministers, where Angela Merkel will make damn sure her industrial base continues to enjoy privileged access to our market.

It's not just the selling and buying of cars that's the issue though. It's about where those cars are made, regulations on cars and how the EU trade deals help car manufacturers access foreign markets.

The car industry would rather stay: https://next.ft.com/content/ab31282a...a-00144feabdc0

Aside from possibly restricting access to the single market, a potential exit would vastly reduce the UK’s bargaining power in trade negotiations with fast-growing emerging markets such as India and leave it unable to influence debates on future regulations and standards for EU vehicles, the report says.

An exit would also see UK manufacturers cut off from generous research and development funding from Brussels and restrict movement of labour between UK factories and their mainly foreign owners.

Originally Posted by ianch99

We need more of this well-balanced, non-emotive, fact based journalism in this debate ... and apparantly, all murders will stop too .. nice:

And the weather will improve as well...

[Derek]

Originally Posted by ianch99

We need more of this well-balanced, non-emotive, fact based journalism in this debate ... and apparantly, all murders will stop too .. nice:

Maybe not all murders but the amount of crime committed by EU migrants far exceeds what you would expect for the percentage of them here.

[Gavin78]

Makes me laugh big firms warn over EU exit will cause job losses.....you mean it will put an end to cheap labour and migrant workers and stop these fat cats from making huge sums of money from everyone else's expense

Originally Posted by Damien

It's not just the selling and buying of cars that's the issue though. It's about where those cars are made, regulations on cars and how the EU trade deals help car manufacturers access foreign markets.

The car industry would rather stay: https://next.ft.com/content/ab31282a...a-00144feabdc0

Yes, and we were threatened with carmageddon if we didn't join the Euro as well. That's the problem with so many of these anti-Brexit assertions: they are in many cases just re-heated anti-Pound assertions ... assertions which have been shown to be not just wrong, but dangerously wrong.

Most of the world's cars are made and driven outside of the EU. The idea that EU membership is some sort of all-conquering super-weapon, without which we can't possibly function in the world, is just nonsense. Most of the world is not in the EU, and most of the world's nations have smaller economies than we do.

Most of the world's economies are growing. The EU economy, when judged as a whole, is sclerotic. We are already bucking the trend, growing despite the EU, not because of it. We are shackled to a corpse, as Dan Hannan is fond of saying.