1GB Cap Letter!!!!

[dirtydog]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been answered but..

I got the 150k service a few weeks ago and it's been pretty much maxed out 24/7 since then We're talking between 1GB and 1.5GB a day (closer to the latter) mainly on WinMX

Should I expect a letter from ntl soon?

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by th'engineer

Lets not forget NTL Broadband was sold as unlimited, not a limited service .
I have a leaflet and contract saying that there again did sign up before the AUP changes.

I agree with you, it is annoying that the product sold as unlimited is not limited - and I also think they should be 100% upfront about it (refer you back to the discussion about Videotron in Canada, and it's quite clear how much you can have with them).

However someone (sorry I forget who) made a very good point much earlier in the thread that this element of the AUP was introduced nearly a year ago now. The minimum term of contracts is 12 months too, so everyone is now affected by this clause, like it or not.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been answered but..

I got the 150k service a few weeks ago and it's been pretty much maxed out 24/7 since then We're talking between 1GB and 1.5GB a day (closer to the latter) mainly on WinMX

Should I expect a letter from ntl soon?

Well if you keep it to the former then no, you shoudl be fine.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Well if you keep it to the former then no, you shoudl be fine.

I would think that with the users being targeted dling 8Gb the latter would not be on their radar either (though is over AUP guidance and may do over time).

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

I would think that with the users being targeted dling 8Gb the latter would not be on their radar either (though is over AUP guidance and may do over time).

Yeah I thought that may be the case, although I wondered if they might have a stricter limit for 150k users or something.

At least ntl aren't like tiscali with their 150k adsl service where the t&c's specifically state you aren't allowed to use any filesharing apps

[DVS]

Originally Posted by erol

(PS there is nothing 'peaky' about downloading your mail from an NTL server (if they are working that is). It's likely to saturate your connection a lot more than your typical P2P app is.)

Of course there is.. You don't download email for hours at a time. Most users will be minutes at best so you get a peak in their bandwidth usage. P2P will produce constant traffic.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Yeah I thought that may be the case, although I wondered if they might have a stricter limit for 150k users or something.

At least ntl aren't like tiscali with their 150k adsl service where the t&c's specifically state you aren't allowed to use any filesharing apps

But at least Tiscali are being honest & upfront about it, that's got to be 100% better than hiding the fact away that your download capabilities are restricted in some way when they never were before??

What ntl did was unprofessional & amateur IMO, & they deserve nothing but the contempt that they showed for their customers in the way they sneakily introduced it.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Neil

But at least Tiscali are being honest & upfront about it, that's got to be 100% better than hiding the fact away that your download capabilities are restricted in some way when they never were before??

What ntl did was unprofessional & amateur IMO, & they deserve nothing but the contempt that they showed for their customers in the way they sneakily introduced it.

You are right of course.. but ntl still have less restrictions on their service than Tiscali even with the cap. I don't know if the restriction on filesharing applies to Tiscali's faster services as I didn't check the t&c's for them, but it's a pretty major restriction to have imo

edit - I'm thinking of the 150k services here btw; obviously a 1GB cap for me is near my ~1.5GB physical limit anyway. I do think that a 1GB limit for 600k+ customers is crazy.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

You are right of course.. but ntl still have less restrictions on their service than Tiscali even with the cap. I don't know if the restriction on filesharing applies to Tiscali's faster services as I didn't check the t&c's for them, but it's a pretty major restriction to have imo

edit - I'm thinking of the 150k services here btw; obviously a 1GB cap for me is near my ~1.5GB physical limit anyway. I do think that a 1GB limit for 600k+ customers is crazy.

In all honesty, how many peeps who use P2P apps would sign up for a 150k service anyway (not many methinks)

Anyway-I've just read the Tiscali Ts & Cs, & cannot see any P2P restrictions.

[ian@huth]

I don't think that Erol is looking quite correctly at the ammount of congestion one user can cause. He is saying that all users online at the same time cause an equal ammount oc congestion each. His analogy of raod use is very flawed if you look at it realistically. It is not the mileage that a driver does that causes congestion on the roads, it is the type of vehicle and how it is being driven that causes congestion.

If you take a UBR card that has 200 users on it you can have 190 of them online at the same time with no deterioration to any of their service if they are all just doing a little browsing and chatting. Along come the other ten users, all on 1Mb connections using p2p and having their upstreams maxed out by people downloading from them,. The result is deterioration in the service of all the users, some more than others. If ten of the original users go offline because of this congestion it will not improve matters for the 190 that are left. You can then rightly say that it is the ten 1Mb p2p users who are responsible for the congestion. Even if all the 190 original users went offline the remaining ten would suffer congestion and deterioration in service.

NTL broadband is a contended service and service levels will depend on who is online at any one time and what they are doing. A contended service relies on statistical diversity in the connected users and in what they are doing. If a number of users try to use the service like a leased line service and do their best to max out their downstream and more importantly their upstream then there is more of a chance of deterioration in service levels. In the case of p2p users who have their upstreams maxed out by people downloading from them and the card upstream becomes saturated by such use then it is mainly people that are not contributing to the finances of NTL that are causing problems for "normal" NTL users.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Neil

In all honesty, how many peeps who use P2P apps would sign up for a 150k service anyway (not many methinks)

I daresay you're right - although I am one of course.

Anyway-I've just read the Tiscali Ts & Cs, & cannot see any P2P restrictions.

Just had a quick look and nor can I, but I looked about 3-4 weeks ago and it was very explicit about not using P2P progs, even listing their names and saying it would include as yet unreleased P2P progs as well. I'll try and find the quote, and post a link to it.

[dirtydog]

Oops my mistake [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

I've done Tiscali a disservice it seems :o When I was looking for alternatives to ntl, I also looked at Plusnet.. and it's them that have the restriction on P2P, not Tiscali.

What services are not supported by ADSL Home Surf?
To provide you with high-speed Broadband ADSL at the lowest price possible, ADSL Home Surf does not support the use of bandwidth hungry file sharing applications. By focussing on the services you want, including email and high-speed world wide web access, ADSL Home Surf offers unbeatable broadband value for home users that don't want access to 'peer to peer' (P2P) applications.
In addition, access to binary USENET groups both via PlusNet 's internal USENET servers and any external feeds, is not available. Through active port monitoring, Internet connections for these online applications will not be possible via your ADSL Home Surf connection.

Software programs not supported include, but are not limited to, KaZaA, Gnutella, Edonkey, Napster, WinMX, Aimster and Audiogalaxy. To ensure the quality of service offered through Home Surf, all further file-sharing applications that become available will similarly not be supported.

http://portal.plus.net/info2/whatisa...19f708d45b#not

So just ignore everything I said about Tiscali earlier [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Oops my mistake [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

I've done Tiscali a disservice it seems :o When I was looking for alternatives to ntl, I also looked at Plusnet.. and it's them that have the restriction on P2P, not Tiscali.

[/b]
http://portal.plus.net/info2/whatisa...19f708d45b#not

So just ignore everything I said about Tiscali earlier [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

I see they are selling that as a 'feature' rather than a condition. The fact that they are upfrony with information is fine with me, you see the conditions, if you decide they are for you, as you don't want to use p2p anyway - this may well be a good ISP for you. But the main point here is that they are upfront with the information.

[Blake]

Very similiar to BT No Frills service, Cheap at 18 quid a month for 500kbps.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by andygrif

I see they are selling that as a 'feature' rather than a condition. The fact that they are upfrony with information is fine with me, you see the conditions, if you decide they are for you, as you don't want to use p2p anyway - this may well be a good ISP for you. But the main point here is that they are upfront with the information.

Can I get an Amen !? :pp

Can I get a Hallelulah!?

Well said brother!!

Now praise the nthw Lord!!

(Sorry Russ!)