Students Rioting in London.

Originally Posted by Hugh

The problem is that employers want the benefit of the skills, but don't want to contribute to paying for the courses (mostly).

true - but 'back in the day' the training levy scheme did seem to work - a standard levy on all companies above a certain workforce complement - retrievable by providing accredited training ..

I'm not sure where it all dissolved into the YTS schemes, etc, but the old 'City & Guilds' system, HNC, etc which included 'day release' used to work - why did the funding change to cause these successful schemes to founder?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The problem is that employers want the benefit of the skills, but don't want to contribute to paying for the courses (mostly).

My own is happy to pay for courses and training I do outside of work so long as they are at least vaguely relevant to my position.

A major issue is how the employer can ensure they get a return on their investment, would they be able to ensure a condition of the sponsorship is a set period of service with the company with a percentage of the costs falling to the employee should they leave before this or be fired for some reason?

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

Originally Posted by gazfan

true - but 'back in the day' the training levy scheme did seem to work - a standard levy on all companies above a certain workforce complement - retrievable by providing accredited training ..

I'm not sure where it all dissolved into the YTS schemes, etc, but the old 'City & Guilds' system, HNC, etc which included 'day release' used to work - why did the funding change to cause these successful schemes to founder?

That actually sounds great gazfan, I think this is kinda what the coalition's plans towards vocational training are trying to accomplish though I'd need to check that.

Education seems to have become a bit of a one size fits all with as many as possible funnelled to University and those who don't go sent to the tills and shelf filling in the supermarket.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That actually sounds great gazfan, I think this is kinda what the coalition's plans towards vocational training are trying to accomplish though I'd need to check that.

Education seems to have become a bit of a one size fits all with as many as possible funnelled to University and those who don't go sent to the tills and shelf filling in the supermarket.

My school had 3 tiers, those working towards Oxbridge, those working to get into a decent 'red brick' & those seeking vocational training.

The 'vocational' people did stuff like technical drawing & practical woodwork/metalwork that the 'academic' people didn't - they left at age 16 & got an apprenticeship.

The 'red brick' people did two more years, did A levels & applied to 'ordinary' universities.

The 'Oxbridge' people did their O' Levels a year early, their A levels a year early & used the extra year to do the special papers & entrance exams for Oxford or Cambridge.

I was initially in the 'fast stream' 'Oxbridge' lot, & got good O' Levels at age 15, but then preferred adolescence to academia & failed to pass any A levels.

- I was subsequently lucky to get grant aid to do an OND & then an HND, but that was quite a few years later ...

Amidst the rambling I hope I've indicated there were always several choices available to me, none of which involved taking out a loan.

imo employers should pay for training - not students ?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by punky

And I dare (I assume the word you missed out here as a result of your furious right wing typing was "say") forcing someone to work within a company for a set period of time (like they do in the military) breaks some kind of human rights legistlation.

Have you any proof of this?

---------- Post added at 02:07 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If Scotland, Wales and Ireland are part of UNITED KINGDOM, then students should have the same education and if it is FREE, then it should be across the board, what happen to equal rights. whats fair for one, is fair for all.

Arthur, I do appreciate that you are quite "mad" but you need to understand that Ireland (the clue is in the name) is not "part of (the) UNITED KINGDOM".

[danielf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11977634

The six blokes pictured look like they'd be more comfortable on a football terrace than in a lecture theatre.

[Derek]

There is a cracking video on liveleak of a 'student' chucking a petrol bomb at the police.

His mates then spirit him away when they realise he might get his photo taken. Can't link to it here as there is some naughty language in it but Inspector Gadget has a copy on his site.

He has a clear run up to chuck the flaming bottle at the Police lines. In any other country in the world he'd be looking at the wrong end of a baton round at the bare minimum.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Derek

There is a cracking video on liveleak of a 'student' chucking a petrol bomb at the police.

His mates then spirit him away when they realise he might get his photo taken. Can't link to it here as there is some naughty language in it but Inspector Gadget has a copy on his site.

He has a clear run up to chuck the flaming bottle at the Police lines. In any other country in the world he'd be looking at the wrong end of a baton round at the bare minimum.

I see no reason why baton rounds should not be used, plus we should use water cannon as a quick soaking on a winters day will soon cool them down.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Derek

There is a cracking video on liveleak of a 'student' chucking a petrol bomb at the police.

His mates then spirit him away when they realise he might get his photo taken. Can't link to it here as there is some naughty language in it but Inspector Gadget has a copy on his site.

He has a clear run up to chuck the flaming bottle at the Police lines. In any other country in the world he'd be looking at the wrong end of a baton round at the bare minimum.

TBF, and to the student's credit. I think they tried to stop him as soon as he was spotted.

The video is unique as it simultaneously vidicates the police who claim there was violence before kettling and the students who claim they were infiltrated by extremists groups. At the end when he is pulled away by his mates one of them does appear to have one of those arabic headbands on that you see terrorists in execution videos wearing.

[Derek]

The checklist for a students days peaceful protesting doesn't tend to go:

Food, water, phone, money, petrol, flares, paint, snooker balls.

I've no doubt that a majority of the protestors were not involved in the violence, I've been hearing stories of a large number of foreigners involved in the main chunk of disorder but there were plenty of home grown halfwits only too prepared to join in.

In my mind though the students have only themselves to blame. By refusing to condemn the violence and putting the blame onto the Police for the escalation of violence over the course of the protests they are setting things up for more and more disorder.
Also by allowing themselves to be infiltrated by hooligans and anarchists they've allowed their message to be drowned out.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Devolution.

Exactly. I find it pretty amusing that so many English people have said us Celtics can "$%*& off" back to our own countries but when those in England are losing out, suddenly it's all about the "UNITED Kindom".

I'm no rabid Welsh nationalist but if you make your bed, you lie in it.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

Exactly. I find it pretty amusing that so many English people have said us Celtics can "$%*& off" back to our own countries but when those in England are losing out, suddenly it's all about the "UNITED Kindom".

I'm no rabid Welsh nationalist but if you make your bed, you lie in it.

You can tell it's 2012 in a couple of years, you and I agreeing has to be one of the omens of the impending apocalyspe

Mmm, bizarre Nibiru gravitation causes Ignition/Russ love-in ... that's a conspiracy too far, I think.

[Russ]

Aw come on Carl it's not all bad, we've both become quite agreeable in our old age

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Russ

Aw come on Carl it's not all bad, we've both become quite agreeable in our old age

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by punky

Anyone seeing the group of student union leaders including that ghastly Ckare Solomon on the BBC?

Apparently there was no violence, it was a good natured, radical process and, suprise surprise, it's all the police's fault.

I don't know how they have the bare faced cheek, I really don't.

Is this what you saw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=InjVpoguqVk

Because that is some of what was a longer rant from the group you see in the video. Other snippets missing from that was the threat that there will be more of there "good natured but radical protesting" to come.