Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Actually read my post above, I suspect we don't disagree as much as you think. Certainly the average wage after tax is unacceptable, thankfully this is a small minority largely feeding unscrupulous landlords with housing benefit. Get rid of that minority and the rents have to go down to market rate which helps out with scarcity of housing. Win:win.

Actually, it's worse. It's the average wage before tax. But yes, it needs stamping out.

We manage not always great but enough for saying i am not working and now never likely too. I have always agreed the benefit culture needs stopping and that there are some on it who have no real need or reason to be on it bar they make a choice to not work. I am worried as are most genuine claimants that a nice big wide brush is going to be applied to the system in order to clear out quite obvious problems within it.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

We manage not always great but enough for saying i am not working and now never likely too. I have always agreed the benefit culture needs stopping and that there are some on it who have no real need or reason to be on it bar they make a choice to not work. I am worried as are most genuine claimants that a nice big wide brush is going to be applied to the system in order to clear out quite obvious problems within it.

That's the problem though; Everyone agrees abuse of the system must stop and only genuine claimants receive benefit but the problem is defining a genuine claimant and tackling the system without impacting on the innocent.

This is an example of how 'genuine claimant' is difficult to define:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nadine-dorries

Nadine Dorries, the Conservative MP for Mid Bedfordshire, on Thursday urged her blog readers to report to the Department of Work and Pensions people who tweet more than 50 times a day and claim benefits. She had apparently being told of a tweeter who has posted 34,500 times in a few months. This tweeter is Humphrey Cushion, who is disabled through arthritis, yet does not qualify for disability living allowance. She had to give up work as a home carer, as she is currently on a waiting list for two foot operations. If someone tweeted so frequently, Dorries wrote, then clearly they had nothing wrong with their hands or mind and should therefore be fit for work.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Damien

That's the problem though; Everyone agrees abuse of the system must stop and only genuine claimants receive benefit but the problem is defining a genuine claimant and tackling the system without impacting on the innocent.

This is an example of how 'genuine claimant' is difficult to define:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nadine-dorries

The reality though is that most attempts to tackle abuse end up hurting many genuine claimants.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by danielf

The reality though is that most attempts to tackle abuse end up hurting many genuine claimants.

That shouldn't deter the government from trying.

[tammac]

We have the usual load of apologisers for the Tories coming out from under their stones, the country was put in this mess by their friends, the international bankers, and their casino type lending to countries and people who, could not hope to pay it back,but they still trousered the obscene bonuses their Ladbrokes mentality got them, as for benefits, the U.K. has the lowest benefit payments in Europe,and if thatchers children really want to get some money back, go after the "Tax Avoiders" like Danny Alexander;who said his flat in London was his second home, benefit=£37,000 allowances, but his main home to the taxman-doesn't pay Capital-Gains tax, or Sir Philip Green, put his company in the wife's name,=Tax-Free £12,000,000 dividend, so go after the REAL benefit thieves and believe me, there are plenty of them, look in the Tory, Lib-dem, and and Labour parties,and big business, I don't think the mrs mopps and the other working- class black economy mob are in the same League as the Real Scroungers that seem to infest these pages will trot out the usual rubbish about benefit thieves, but i bet most of them are tax avoiders.

Remember, Mrs Punctuation and Master Appropriate-Spacing are Mr Easy-To-Read's friends.....

[tammac]

Originally Posted by nomadking

You seem to be getting your rent fully paid and getting an extra £15/week on top of your normal benefits.

The up to £15/week extra in housing benefit is one of the first things that should be stopped for everybody, as why should somebody get extra just because they live in a certain area.

wow £15 quid a week! don't think the receipent gets the dough in their hands, it goes to council, bang goes that£15 quid

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Remember, punctuation and appropriate spacing are Mr Easy-To-Read's friends.....

Thought we wre disgusting beneefits, not educaton, p.s. donut wurry peepul wull get the drft

I was trying to be helpful - if you want to get your message across, it is more likely if it is easy to read and understand.

Or perhaps you were just having a rant?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by tammac

i bet most of them are tax avoiders.

What's wrong with Tax avoidance?

If I knew of a loophole to avoid tax, I'd use it.

rather than "go after" the tax avoiders, close the loophole.

If you run a system that can be taken advantage, don't start crying when people take advantage of it.

Now tax evasion, is different.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by tammac

wow £15 quid a week! don't think the receipent gets the dough in their hands, it goes to council, bang goes that£15 quid

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------



Thought we wre disgusting beneefits, not educaton, p.s. donut wurry peepul wull get the drft

DWP page on Local Housing Allowance

Choice - tenants are able to take on greater responsibility and choose how to spend their income in a similar way to tenants who are not in receipt of benefits. Like other tenants they are able to choose whether to rent a larger property, or spend less on housing and increase their available income. The claimants will be able to keep the excess (to a maximum ?15 per week) if they choose whether to rent accommodation cheaper than their LHA rate or rent a more expensive property and pay the additional rent from their own income.

Personal responsibility - Empowering people to budget for and to pay their rent themselves, rather than having it paid for them, helps develop the skills unemployed tenants will need as they move back into work. Currently around 40% of Housing Benefit payments in the private rented sector are made to tenants, with the remainder paid straight to landlords. The Government believes that, where possible, local housing allowance should be paid to tenants, as are most other benefits and tax credits. Safegaurds will be put in place for those customers that are unable to manage their financial affairs or who fall into rent arears.

So who's the ?

Eg if the rent is £90/week and the LHA rate for the area is £105 or more then the claimant gets £105/week(£15 extra). If the LHA rate was £100/week then they would get £100/week(£10 extra).

[tammac]

Originally Posted by Pierre

What's wrong with Tax avoidance?

If I knew of a loophole to avoid tax, I'd use it.

rather than "go after" the tax avoiders, close the loophole.

If you run a system that can be taken advantage, don't start crying when people take advantage of it.

Now tax evasion, is different.

What's the difference? so if people take advantage of the benefit system without the help of sleezy accountants they're wrong, but on the other hand tax avoiders do the same with accountants it's o k, so what you crying about somebody who does a wee job on the side, as YOU say, take advantage of it; its All tax evasion mate!

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

DWP page on Local Housing Allowance
So who's the ?

Eg if the rent is £90/week and the LHA rate for the area is £105 or more then the claimant gets £105/week(£15 extra). If the LHA rate was £100/week then they would get £100/week(£10 extra).

don't know anyone who gets h.b. in their hand, as for spouting Gov lit,at me, cant you think for yourself, I'm not really interested in Gobbleday gook.

[Taf]

HB can be paid to the tenant or the landlord... it's up to the tenant... which is why so many landlords are being stiffed payments month after month until they go through an expensive legal procedure to get the defaulting tenants out.

It's common practice amongst the Czech Roma hereabouts. I know because I have known then gleefully withholding rent to spend it on booze, sporty but clapped-out cars, and widescreen TVs. They have found a way to get free accomodation for extended periods... but landlords are spreading the word amongst themselves (only to have the race card thrown at them for refusing to rent to Czech Roma).

[tammac]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I was trying to be helpful - if you want to get your message across, it is more likely if it easy to read and understand.

Or perhaps you were just having a rant?

most people will understand, darling

[Angua]

The current system is ridiculously skewed towards benefit dependency and having to claim for so many different things. As the whole system is so bureaucratic it makes for too many ways to abuse the system and too many ways for people to fall between the cracks and lose out.

I get most annoyed with those talking about "child poverty" who seem to think throwing money at the poor will actually do anything about this. There must be more effective and better ways of improving the lot of children directly, which ensures the help needed actually reaches the ones who need it. All that seems to have happened with it so far is creating families who are better off claiming than working.