Should Scotland Devolve Completely?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

Statements like that do more for the nationalist cause than Alex Salmond ever could

Good!

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Originally Posted by stewart28

its us who give you the money!!!

where do you think your oil comes from.

Well keep it then
If the Scots (and Welsh/Irish) want out let them.......

Originally Posted by Russ

So it's the "UK's oil" as opposed to England's or Scotland's?

Yes, at present, it is, and it has never at any point in history been anything other than the UK's oil.

If, in future, the Union was split, then a national maritime boundary would have to be drawn between England and Scotland. There isn't one at present, nor has there ever been one, as the conventions that establish them didn't exist the last time England and Scotland were independent of each other. Such a boundary would put about 80% of the UK's reserves under Scottish control and the remaining 20% under English. That has, since the mid 1970s, been almost the entire rationale for a viable, independent Scottish state - oil revenues.

However, claiming that future oil revenue would prop up a Scottish state is one thing, what the Nationalists are doing is going a step further and whingeing "It's Scotland's Oil!" as if the rotten English have somehow stolen it. This is an outright falsehood, but they use it because they believe it serves their purpose in whipping up nationalist sentiment.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Russ

So it's the "UK's oil" as opposed to England's or Scotland's?

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It doesn't make sense though. The suggestion that Welsh MPs in Westminster can influence English affairs while the reverse cannot happen is totally false.

Yes and I didn't make that suggestion. I merely made the point (as was, I believe, the OP) that in those areas of law, policy etc. where the 'regions' have devolved powers, English MP's don't have the right to affect those decisions.

Ofcourse, Scotland going its own way would leave England with a nasty hole in its national defence.... England would need to find a new home for its Trident Fleet. It would need to find replacements for some of the best infantry and cavalry regiments (second only to the regiments from Norn Iron ofc! ) in the Army, and it would loose the Crab Airways bases north of the boarder.

So wanting to get shot of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland my suit your Little Englander tendencies Ramrod. But in truth is highly unlikely to be practical.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

So wanting to get shot of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland my suit your Little Englander tendencies Ramrod. But in truth is highly unlikely to be practical.

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Originally Posted by Osem

Yes and I didn't make that suggestion. I merely made the point (as was, I believe, the OP) that in those areas of law, policy etc. where the 'regions' have devolved powers, English MP's don't have the right to affect those decisions.

You're still not getting it

The Welsh Assembly has very little 'power' to change things in Wales. All major decisions about what happens here is still made in Westminster. I admire your apparent willingness to afford the WA all these powers and rights but seriously, very few exist.

It's only a few idiots that want to break the union up most of us like the union and are happy to keep it but a vote would be good if only to put the issue to rest once and for all. Personally i cannot stand the snp and their pathetic nationalist claptrap and alex salmond has a face you would never tire of slapping. Together we benefit each other in so many ways apart we would all be weaker in everyway doesn't seem like a good idea to break us all up.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Russ

You're still not getting it

The Welsh Assembly has very little 'power' to change things in Wales. All major decisions about what happens here is still made in Westminster.I admire your apparent willingness to afford the WA all these powers and rights but seriously, very few exist.

Sorry, but your'e not getting it. I've just made that very point:

I didn't claim that, in the case of Wales, the difference in powers is enormous (or on the scale of what applies in Scotland), just that there is a difference in powers and that's what the poster was referring to.

and nowhere have I said that the Welsh assembly has lots of new powers or that they amount to much more than a hill of mining spoil.

The powers in question with respect to the Welsh assembly are clearly relatively minor when compared to those in Scotland but, however minor, they do exist, as you have just confirmed and that's what the OP was referring to when he raised the issue of the West Lothian question.

[Russ]

Tell me which powers you think the WA has.

Didn't they pass the Regulation of Male Voice Choirs Act 2008? Coupled with the Tom Jones (Exemption) (Wales) Order 2009?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris

Didn't they pass the Regulation of Male Voice Choirs Act 2008? Coupled with the Tom Jones (Exemption) (Wales) Order 2009?

OK granted, they managed to get that one through (and why not? Sir Tom is our patron saint ).

Absolutely, and as such he completely deserves his exemption from compulsory choir practice for three hours every Sunday afternoon.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chris

However, claiming that future oil revenue would prop up a Scottish state is one thing, what the Nationalists are doing is going a step further and whingeing "It's Scotland's Oil!" as if the rotten English have somehow stolen it. This is an outright falsehood, but they use it because they believe it serves their purpose in whipping up nationalist sentiment.

You forgot the other fib/distortion. The way that when assessing the value of the North Sea reserves to Scotland the nationalist types tend to use 100% of the estimated value of it, forgetting that those private companies that drill it may be somewhat reluctant to pay 100% tax on it.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It's only a few idiots that want to break the union up most of us like the union and are happy to keep it but a vote would be good if only to put the issue to rest once and for all. Personally i cannot stand the snp and their pathetic nationalist claptrap and alex salmond has a face you would never tire of slapping. Together we benefit each other in so many ways apart we would all be weaker in everyway doesn't seem like a good idea to break us all up.

Don't be silly Rizzy democracy is overrated anyway. Just ask Gordon Brown about the Lisbon treaty, the various policy powers the twice quit in disgrace then appointed to the cabinet and basically running the country Dark Lord Mandelson has, etc. Our PM's disdain for democracy is perfectly clear so no reason to expect the public to have any significant say on these matters.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

So wanting to get shot of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland my suit your Little Englander tendencies Ramrod. But in truth is highly unlikely to be practical.

I'm not remotely 'English'
I just think that if countries don't want to be part of the UK they should be allowed to leave

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

You forgot the other fib/distortion. The way that when assessing the value of the North Sea reserves to Scotland the nationalist types tend to use 100% of the estimated value of it, forgetting that those private companies that drill it may be somewhat reluctant to pay 100% tax on it.

So I did ... and I also could have made more of the one where they propose a maritime border between England and Scotland that runs due East from the coast, neatly putting all the oil in Scotland's jurisdiction. Whereas, in the real world, national maritime boundaries follow the same average direction as the land border they are an extension of. And the land border between England and Scotland runs, more or less, north easterly from Gretna to Lamberton. Which severs about 20% of the oil fields from the SNP's claim. It may not sound like much, but it puts a pretty big dent in their figures.

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Originally Posted by Ramrod

I just think that if countries don't want to be part of the UK they should be allowed to leave

That's not an unreasonable thought - however it does look as if you're assessing what the whole country 'wants' based on the febrile rantings of a few zealots.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's not an unreasonable thought - however it does look as if you're assessing what the whole country 'wants' based on the febrile rantings of a few zealots.

Possibly. However, if they don't want to leave then they don't have to