Failed mother of 13 pregnant again!

[Woolly One]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Until we get rid of people like this from the benefit system it makes it all too easy to minimalise the system as a whole and to make all claimants look like sponging freeloaders which is the impression our media would like every working person to have.

Totally agree, but the next question is - how?

The media itself has a lot to answer for, by giving them the column inches in the first place. I assume that they have been paid for the stories, so I only hope that their benifits will now be suspended, pending review of their assets.

[Jelly Bean]

They will never allow her to keep one as what she is doing is showing her pathetic mentality which appears subnormal and below normal.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by martyh

what's the betting that in a few weeks time she's back in the papers having been "spied on" by the social and caught out walking normally (which i understand is her disability).She's drawn attention to herself now so they will be watching
As a partnership they get over a £1000 pm ,thats more than my wife who is working .
stop the benefits they get while a full investigation is done into why they get these benefits ,if it is found that she genuinely does have a disability then give her a wheel chair and send her out to work ,after all every employer in the country has to have disabled amenities to accommodate any worker with a disability,so she can't use that as an excuse for not working .
I am sick and tired of supporting spongers like these with the taxes i pay ,what happened to all the tough talk from Blair/brown about clamping down on benefit fraud it seems to me that when they come across a case like this they shy away from it because it means someone will have to make a tough decision and might lead to criticism of the government ,well that's tough ,make the damn decisions get these people off benefits drag them by the hair if necessary to the job center and force them to take any job that they are physically capable of doing

rant over...feel better now

have to take issue with the wheel chair remark

you do not have to be in as wheel chair to be disabled and should avoid being in one for as long as you can

i am fed up with the idea that because they can walk they are not disabled many of us have conditions which are made more painful by walking but choose to do so because we need the exercise to keep fit and live a semi active family life

yes there are cheats ( not as many as some try to make out ) who go off and do football etc but that is not the same as walking often in pain to the shops

whether she is having them on on her disability i do not know but the idea that because some one walks means they are fiddling is wrong and offensive

[Dai]

A number of people spend considerable amounts of money hiring surrogate mothers to produce children for them. In a way she's providing a service for childless couples.

How do we get them off the system well a couple of easy ways to me one for incapacity benefit have two initial rates medically confirmed and non confirmed. You would then have two other categorys of short term and long term that would make it easier for the powers that be to at least have an idea where to target any crackdown as long term medically confirmed would obviously be harder to get and a lot lot harder to fake.

On the unemployment side i do believe in some form of work for benefit in a vocational way not simply having them picking up rubbish off country roads and such but something that will genuinely help them get work. Not five days a week maybe three a week with the other two being used to help claimants with job applications, cv's and interview techniques to give them the best possible chance.

I know when i was once unemployed that would have made me very happy as it would have kept me in a routine and shown perspective employers i had done something with my time other then sit about getting my giro.

I have to agree on the wheelchair comment because if you saw me walk out of my house i might appear a little slow but would seem fine see me fifty metres down the road then you would see something was wrong. Like many i am stubborn and simply refuse to go to the chair even though being totally honest i probably should. This is where we have to be careful you cannot judge from quick impressions and also someone might be fine walking from their home to town or something but then spend two or three or more days paying for it.

As to the media right now i have complete contempt for them and the way they are manipulating many areas of public opinion usually in keeping with their foreign owner's views not those of the vast majority of the british public.

Who by and large are still fair are still generous and would never refuse help to those in genuine need. But we do need to make our system tight enough for the confidence to return that those getting benefit do indeed need it and deserve it.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

How do we get them off the system well a couple of easy ways to me one for incapacity benefit have two initial rates medically confirmed and non confirmed. You would then have two other categorys of short term and long term that would make it easier for the powers that be to at least have an idea where to target any crackdown as long term medically confirmed would obviously be harder to get and a lot lot harder to fake.

On the unemployment side i do believe in some form of work for benefit in a vocational way not simply having them picking up rubbish off country roads and such but something that will genuinely help them get work. Not five days a week maybe three a week with the other two being used to help claimants with job applications, cv's and interview techniques to give them the best possible chance.

I know when i was once unemployed that would have made me very happy as it would have kept me in a routine and shown perspective employers i had done something with my time other then sit about getting my giro.

I have to agree on the wheelchair comment because if you saw me walk out of my house i might appear a little slow but would seem fine see me fifty metres down the road then you would see something was wrong. Like many i am stubborn and simply refuse to go to the chair even though being totally honest i probably should. This is where we have to be careful you cannot judge from quick impressions and also someone might be fine walking from their home to town or something but then spend two or three or more days paying for it.

As to the media right now i have complete contempt for them and the way they are manipulating many areas of public opinion usually in keeping with their foreign owner's views not those of the vast majority of the british public.

Who by and large are still fair are still generous and would never refuse help to those in genuine need. But we do need to make our system tight enough for the confidence to return that those getting benefit do indeed need it and deserve it.

you dont seem to understand that to get invalidity you already need to get it medically confirmed

there are some conditions that though are always going to be not diagnosable other than by what the person reports the condition to be ( back pain for example )

if they do something they say they cant do and get caught then they loose their benefits this wont get any easier or harder to do with a confirmed and unconfirmed label

if you want to save money though ad that's your main aim i take it then getting rid of the investigating arm of the invalidity would be the way as they spend over £1 for every 62p they save ( and that's based on their idea of what would have been lost if they hadnt caught those they did lol )

see http://www.nao.org.uk/news/0708/0708102.aspx

the biggest travesty of invalidity is not who it pays out to that it shouldnt but the amount it never pays to those it should

see http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/opinion/b1..._shocker.shtml

as to those on job seakers or even the disability working benefits i should imagine most would love to do some work especially if it helped them into work or to keep up their skills

but the best way to do that has been blocked by successive governments which is to allow them to claim while doing charity work

No Roger you need a doctor to sign something to say you have a problem that is not the same as medically confirmed by a specialist with hard data to backup that you have a disability or specific limiting medical condition. Right now we have too many doctors signing people onto the sick for the daftest reasons and not having the time and the resources to actually make sure someone is always telling the truth or that the problem they have actually exists.

Take back pain most gp's will take the word of a patient that they have it and refer them to a specialist for it to be sorted out which can take a long long time and is the most common thing fraudulent claimants state as their medical problem. This is what i mean by restoring the confidence of people in the system.

Right now so many whether because of the media or by someone they have heard of think that most people on incapacity benefit are lead swinging spongers with no real problem and are happy to grab that generalisation brush and tar everyone with it.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a system where people were confident that those getting incap were limited and deserved it instead of what we have now.

I am not actually sure how good the so called investigating arm is because over the years i have called that hotline to report people blatently ripping off the system and not a thing has ever happened to anyone and most of the people i have reported i know many others have also called the hotline reporting them.

In cases like this one people are waiting to see a strong response from the system to see that actually benefit and the welfare state in general is not something that can be abused and when it doesn't happen all claimants and those in need suffer because of it.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

have to take issue with the wheel chair remark

you do not have to be in as wheel chair to be disabled and should avoid being in one for as long as you can

i am fed up with the idea that because they can walk they are not disabled many of us have conditions which are made more painful by walking but choose to do so because we need the exercise to keep fit and live a semi active family life

yes there are cheats ( not as many as some try to make out ) who go off and do football etc but that is not the same as walking often in pain to the shops

whether she is having them on on her disability i do not know but the idea that because some one walks means they are fiddling is wrong and offensive

why would you take issue with the wheelchair remark roger ?
if she is that incapacitated to need a carer(her partner i understand) and cannot work because of her disability then remove the excuse of "i can't walk properly so i can't work" give her a wheelchair or walking sticks or whatever she needs, and get the sponger out to work
believe me roger she is not disabled in any way she is milking the system and taking money of genuinely deserving cases, so i say scare the living daylights out of the pair of them ,remove any excuses they have for not working (if that means giving them a wheelchair then so be it )and refuse to pay any more disability allowance until they find a job and if they refuse to find a job throw them in jail for benefit fraud

While i am not defending this particular woman not being able to walk properly is usually a symptom of a much more serious condition that you cannot easily see and will not be sorted by simply plonking someone in a wheelchair.

I agree in this case it is unlikely she is as bad as she says as by my logic if she is bad enough not to work she wouldn't be in a hurry to keep having kids. I wish some action were announced in this case because i am sure there is more here then what we read in the papers and that was bad enough.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by martyh

why would you take issue with the wheelchair remark roger ?
if she is that incapacitated to need a carer(her partner i understand) and cannot work because of her disability then remove the excuse of "i can't walk properly so i can't work" give her a wheelchair or walking sticks or whatever she needs, and get the sponger out to work
believe me roger she is not disabled in any way she is milking the system and taking money of genuinely deserving cases, so i say scare the living daylights out of the pair of them ,remove any excuses they have for not working (if that means giving them a wheelchair then so be it )and refuse to pay any more disability allowance until they find a job and if they refuse to find a job throw them in jail for benefit fraud

giving some one a wheel chair doesn't make them capable of work

unless we have all the details there is no way of knowing exactly what she has wrong with her if anything is

diagnosing people from media reports seems daft and unproductive to say the least

---------- Post added at 01:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No Roger you need a doctor to sign something to say you have a problem that is not the same as medically confirmed by a specialist with hard data to backup that you have a disability or specific limiting medical condition. Right now we have too many doctors signing people onto the sick for the daftest reasons and not having the time and the resources to actually make sure someone is always telling the truth or that the problem they have actually exists.

Take back pain most gp's will take the word of a patient that they have it and refer them to a specialist for it to be sorted out which can take a long long time and is the most common thing fraudulent claimants state as their medical problem. This is what i mean by restoring the confidence of people in the system.

Right now so many whether because of the media or by someone they have heard of think that most people on incapacity benefit are lead swinging spongers with no real problem and are happy to grab that generalisation brush and tar everyone with it.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a system where people were confident that those getting incap were limited and deserved it instead of what we have now.

I am not actually sure how good the so called investigating arm is because over the years i have called that hotline to report people blatently ripping off the system and not a thing has ever happened to anyone and most of the people i have reported i know many others have also called the hotline reporting them.

In cases like this one people are waiting to see a strong response from the system to see that actually benefit and the welfare state in general is not something that can be abused and when it doesn't happen all claimants and those in need suffer because of it.

that's not how disability works your Dr has little or nothing to do with you getting benefits now

you can get sick-pay for a while on a Drs note but to progress to invalidity or other benefits will require you seeing several Drs and other people employed by the benefits agencies

see

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...ho_cannot_work

Well i am going by my experience Roger i saw my gp he put me on the sick i saw a consultant he diagnosed me i then applied for incapacity benefit at the jobcentres persistent insistance after being on it a year i was awarded full disability i havn't seen any benefits agency medical personnel at all.

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Well i am going by my experience Roger i saw my gp he put me on the sick i saw a consultant he diagnosed me i then applied for incapacity benefit at the jobcentres persistent insistance after being on it a year i was awarded full disability i havn't seen any benefits agency medical personnel at all.

I think the difference there is that, you, like me are on incapacity benefit, not ESA where the rules are different.

I understand that ALL will have to have dr's checks at some point.

Incidentally, I've not had to see an atos / job centre doctor yet.

But now that I've said that I probably will

I wouldn't have a problem going to see any doctor from any agency given i have a condition that cannot be denied or at this time cured so i will await my nice letter from the happy people .

[dilli-theclaw]

iindeed, I guess all they have to do is look into my eyes and they can see what's wrong with me