Students Rioting in London.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by danielf

Not at all. You get stupid people everywhere. It's not limited to people leaning to the right or left.

You don't do humour very well do you?

Bah. I was hoping to catch you out.

I do humour just fine, I was poking to see what would happen.

Well played.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

People do die, Blair Peach and Ian Tomlinson being but two examples.

Indeed and lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

[Derek]

Members of the public aren't unique in dying during riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock

Anyway now that's out the way I'm hearing rumours that since the little darlings are so unhappy about being 'kettled' that a new, more continental, system of riot control is being looked into.

It may be a good time to invest in companies who make water cannons.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Indeed and lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

what does that have to do with student protests ?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I would regard my post as not insulting anyone. If we are being pedantic I used the word 'If' as the very first word within my post, so the statement was conditional not absolute

I'm sure they will accept your explanation / apology with grace.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I would also suggest that neither you nor I you know the viewpoints of every student so to make any claims regarding their viewpoints as a whole would be inaccurate. It's probably a fair assumption that some of them, in common with many other demographics, are quite happy to entirely blame bankers for the issues.

I have made no claim with regard to their viewpoints nor am I prepared, as you appear to be doing, to jump to conclusions as to what they may or may not attribute as being the "entire" cause of the current economic state.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Most of a left-wing slant whose ideological slant is towards big state, big spending, comprehensive welfare and the like are going to struggle with the idea that those policies contributed to recession.

That's another political assumption assuming benign ignorance on that part of society whom you deem to be of a "left wing slant". You really, really need to stop this unhealthy fixation with left / right policies, perceptions and prejudices. Life is much, much more complicated than that.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The rest of the post wasn't insulting anyone, it was what I regard as realism, stating the blindingly obvious with the benefit of hindsight.

As far as your earlier assertion "it's not the fault of the bankers" is concerned your "realism" is, rather conveniently, somewhat at odds with the realism of several hundred milion other individuals and, oddly enough, Mervyn King.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Am I to surmise you can't disagree with its' content given you describe it as spleen venting but offer no correction?

See above. It is pointless my even attempting to disagree with your idelogical austerity advocacy given the fact that you have not yet realized (or better still refuse to acknowledge) where the bulk of the blame lies for the current situiation.

You are attempting to make the idiotic and irresponsible behaviour of the financial sector appear to be a political issue when, quite clearly, it is an apolitical financial matter. The financial sector is neither left nor right, they have no master nor allegiance beyond greed.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

what does that have to do with student protests ?

Just replying to Mr A who replied to my previous post about people taking the rioting to far. If you dont like it you know where the report post button is i am sure.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Derek

Members of the public aren't unique in dying during riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock

Yes Derek, I'm well aware that death is not exclusively the preserve of the public in riot / confrontation situations.

My point was, as subsequently proven, that there those who will use any opportunity to post hysterical anti union propaganda in an attempt to portray union members and activists as blood thirsty murderers.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Just replying to Mr A who replied to my previous post about people taking the rioting to far. If you dont like it you know where the report post button is i am sure.

i have no wish to report anyone -although it would be nice if vented your hatred for every thing that is union in a thread dedicated to the subject .
this thread isn't about trades unions its about students .

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i have no wish to report anyone -although it would be nice if vented your hatred for every thing that is union in a thread dedicated to the subject .
this thread isn't about trades unions its about students .

So i take it the Student union has nothing to do with organising the present round of student protests and yes i do understand its student union not trade union, But your right i will wait till the right time to bring the subject up again.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Yes Derek, I'm well aware that death is not exclusively the preserve of the public in riot / confrontation situations.

My point was, as subsequently proven, that there those who will use any opportunity to post hysterical anti union propaganda in an attempt to portray union members and activists as blood thirsty murderers.

Indeed

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

That's another political assumption assuming benign ignorance on that part of society whom you deem to be of a "left wing slant". You really, really need to stop this unhealthy fixation with left / right policies, perceptions and prejudices. Life is much, much more complicated than that.

I agree it's more complicated, it doesn't change though that both right and left have much to answer for. In the most recent case the left-wing policies robbed the economy of money for remedies to the issues extreme right-wing policy caused.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

As far as your earlier assertion "it's not the fault of the bankers" is concerned your "realism" is, rather conveniently, somewhat at odds with the realism of several hundred milion other individuals and, oddly enough, Mervyn King.

Ah didn't say it wasn't their fault at all. They certainly must take some share of the blame. As must Mr King for his part in it all, so it's a struggle to take him too seriously and many arguments have been presented against him. Fundamentally the bankers did what they did to satisfy demand, a demand which should never have been there in the first place and was put there, both here and in the United States, by the actions of politicians.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

See above. It is pointless my even attempting to disagree with your idelogical austerity advocacy given the fact that you have not yet realized (or better still refuse to acknowledge) where the bulk of the blame lies for the current situiation.

You are attempting to make the idiotic and irresponsible behaviour of the financial sector appear to be a political issue when, quite clearly, it is an apolitical financial matter. The financial sector is neither left nor right, they have no master nor allegiance beyond greed.

I don't advocate it, I'm just yet to see a viable alternative. Believe me I find nothing pleasant about cutting welfare and public services when it's accompanied by tax rises.

The irresponsible behaviour of the financial sector was in response to idiotic and irresponsible behaviour on the part of those who should have been regulating them.

They were the engine behind the bursting bubble, the fuel was political, making property into an 'investment' by raiding pensions to fund unnecessary public spending and engorgement of the public sector for ideological reasons.

I apologise if I wasn't clearer. Obviously those in the City were gambling, but they were empowered to do so by poor regulation, appalling political moves and governmental mismanagement of the economy.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yeah me to, it's a bit of paint, it's not like they were chased down a tunnel and murdered is it

It could have been a lot more than paint. Luckily it wasn't.

Think about it. The Police sent the heir to the throne into a riot. How is that not a massive failure of Royal Protection?

[punky]

I found this curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

The life sentences caused an outcry among the striking miners, who felt that the death of Wilkie was not a deliberate act

How do you 'accidently' end up on the bridge over the road that just happens to be the route of an infamous "scab" (their words, not mine) at the exact time the car carrying him passes by, and 'accidently' happens to be carrying a 46lb concrete block and 'accidently' happens to be over just the right lane of the road as the car and then 'accidently' happens to be lifting said concrete block in such a way as it could clear the fence and then 'accidently' drops the block just as the car went undeneath?

Time reduced to 8 years, served for 4 and out on Wilkie's 5th anniversary of his death. Good result for a cold-blooded deliberate murder.

And then you get NUM **** like Kim Howells who upon hearing the death was that he feared his implication and destroy as much evidence as he could.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by punky

I found this curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie



How do you 'accidently' end up on the bridge over the road that just happens to be the route of an infamous "scab" (their words, not mine) at the exact time the car carrying him passes by, and 'accidently' happens to be carrying a 46lb concrete block and 'accidently' happens to be over just the right lane of the road as the car and then 'accidently' happens to be lifting said concrete block in such a way as it could clear the fence and then 'accidently' drops the block just as the car went undeneath?

Time reduced to 8 years, served for 4 and out on Wilkie's 5th anniversary of his death. Good result for a cold-blooded deliberate murder.

And then you get NUM **** like Kim Howells who upon hearing the death was that he feared his implication and destroy as much evidence as he could.

Careful Punky or you will be classified an hysterical anti unionist

[punky]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Careful Punky or you will be classified an hysterical anti unionist

That's fine so long as I can classify anyone that does the same with deaths of protesters as hysterical anti-police.

All's fair and that.

just to change tack slightly ,i came accross this piece in the telegraph .Would the students be any better off ?

The National Union of Students secretly urged the Coalition to make deep cuts in student grants and charge market rates of interest on student loans, according to leaked emails.