1GB Cap Letter!!!!

[Blake]

asdf,

I said, 24k/sec (which according to DU Meter is Kilobytes per Second (kB/sec)), which is 192 Kilobytes per Second (kbps).

24kB/sec x 60 secs is 1.440mb x 60 minutes = 86,400mb x 12 hours = 1,036,800mb.

I'm sure I got my maths right, If I ain't, then both the calculator, and DU Meter or both wrong.

As for the radio station, it is at http://66.184.142.31:8000
And my DU Meter still says 24k/sec sometimes going upto 32k whilst listening to it

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Sociable

I take it you see what I mean though about what some other company doing is no justification for NTL doing the same.

You appear to agree with us that how it is set now is wrong do you also agree that how it was introduced and STILL is not highlighted in the advertisng is also wrong?

Also do you agree that shifting some useage to off-peak times would help reduce congestion more than simply limiting total transfers in a 24 hour period?

Yes I do agree that the current state it is in is wrong, like I said previously the cap I don't disagree with, but the way in which it is set out at the moment I do have aproblem with. How can we justify or expect that allowing someone with a 150k connection having a 1mb the same download capability would be fair? The cap needs to be there, but should be tiered according to the speed taken. Someone on a 150k line doesn't want to see a drop in service because their next door neighbour is running a buisness web site onext door on a 1mb line, likewise someone who downloads legitimate/non-legitimate doesn't want to see a cap that is the same for somebody who pays £17 odd less each month for their connection. Teiring would be fair, and even should solve the issue that started this discussion off, also yes it should be based over a monthly period rather than daily.

With regards to the "off-peak" usage, from what I can tell, it would be very difficult to monitor. Also the main reason behind the "peak-times" being peak times, is because that's when most people are in and can use the service. I reguarly set downloads up to go overnight (off-peak) but if all high users start doing this then off-peak won't be off peak anymore?! Do you get what I mean?

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Well - So much for NTL's T's and C's

There was a NTL sales van outside mcdonalds in Luton today...

On the side was a big sighn stating " unlimited internet "

I spoke to the guy in the van and told him that I was interested in the service. I asked him if there is a limit on downloading ? No he said - there isn't

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have taken some pictures of the van ... Apologies for the quality but I took them with my old mobile/camera.........

This sign on the outside of the van is not Broadband, but dial up. The offer is talk Talk 24 (telco package) and get free cable base pack or unlimited dial up so the rep was correct, on our dial up there is no limit. The question I would ask is did you mention Broadband, if yes, then he was wrong and you should complain, if not you will find he (and the poster) was refering to our unlimited dial up service

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

That's not ntl's fault that's upto to suppliers of the adsl network to do something about. Don't forget we don't cable a lot of the country and there are other cable suppliers in differect area's (telewest), and, in all honesty, there Broadband technology it a darn site more advanced than ours, half of the problem ntl have is the large shareholding that is owned by banks etc, they won't bankroll upgrades because of the cost involved, so the only way ntl can afford the upgrades etc is to use company cash which at the moment is very scarce. I do know however that ntl is reducing expenditure by getting rid of half full buildings etc.

The point there is that the ADSL product line is rolling out further and further, and other BB technologies are being proposed and often implemented, such as local wifi networks in outlying areas. In simple terms, if ntl are too constrained by their backers, and a blinkered management strategy, as the customer choice of competing technologies, with freedom to use with less restriction becomes available, for in many cases cheaper cost, will ntl have customers left? As you say, Telewest technology is more advanced. Who's fault is that - must be someone in ntl put short term profit and directors bonuses ahead of long term infrastructure and viability.

[DrAwesome]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am going to calm down on this now, we are all arguing with each other

Bottom line is I hope the end solution is good for all

I dont know why anybody argues because there should be no cap in force at all other isp's have no cap & offer BB for less money each month with the revenue NTL gather in each month they should have the best isp service in the UK without imposing a cap on their BB customers

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

... but if all high users start doing this then off-peak won't be off peak anymore?! Do you get what I mean?

Fair point but it is unlikely in the extreme that the numbers shifting use outside peak time would ever create such a problem and even if it did the congestion would only affect those same heavy users.

Allowing a 1 meg user to download more than a gig at peak times would however increase the congestion unless that increase is not used at peak times.

Unless some form of load balancing accompanies any change to the AUP the result is always likely to be at best no change in congestion and at worst a large increase in congestion.

Think "Economy 7" and the benefits that brought to all customers by helping encourage spreading the load by providing an incentive to do so.

Yes have a tiered cap but also link it to some method that encourages off-peak use as well.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

The point there is that the ADSL product line is rolling out further and further, and other BB technologies are being proposed and often implemented, such as local wifi networks in outlying areas. In simple terms, if ntl are too constrained by their backers, and a blinkered management strategy, as the customer choice of competing technologies, with freedom to use with less restriction becomes available, for in many cases cheaper cost, will ntl have customers left? As you say, Telewest technology is more advanced. Who's fault is that - must be someone in ntl put short term profit and directors bonuses ahead of long term infrastructure and viability.

Possibly yes, and in that situation obviously it will be looked at by our backers/directors. Although we know what the technology is the simple fact is that due to the large area we cover the cost of implimenting the technology is to big for the company to take on. If rumours are true then I would expect a merger between the two companies within the next couple of years, maybe then we will see some sensible action taken to make sure the point you have made doesn't become reality.

[rodd]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

LOL Hehe, glad that you took that in the spirit it was intended.

You're entitled to fight the pro-cap corner as it probably directly affects your workload, but as customers a lot of us have the opposite opinion. I don't approve of the blanket 1 gig cap. I'd be happier with a 3 gig per day cap. 1 is just too low in my opinion. I haven't received a letter and I've admitted in this thread I've gone over the limit, but I don't do it all the time and normally it's not much over 2gig. On my craziest day I think I once hit about 6! This week I doubt all my downloads have totalled half a gig, because I haven't done much apart from a little bit of surfing, but if I chose to update the newsgroup listings in agent I'd probably get halfway to the cap just doing that as some groups have a million + msgs.

You are allowed to go over the limit for 3 days in 14, as I understand it.

Presumably ntl see no problem, in a number of similar customers coinciding with their '3 days over' the limit. Though, apparently, not for longer than 3 days.....or that will cause congestion.....but during those 3 days there will not be any congestion..........

Remind me someone....why is there a cap?

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Sociable

Think "Economy 7" and the benefits that brought to all customers by helping encourage spreading the load by providing an incentive to do so.

Yes have a tiered cap but also link it to some method that encourages off-peak use as well.

You won't find me disagreeing with you on this point provided we can back it up, and I am afraid I don't think we can at the moment in all honesty.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

They did offer a choice they don't anymore

£27 for 512k BTBroadband, £37 for 1Mbit, 1GB/day guideline
£29 for 512k BTYahoo!, £40 for 1Mbit, 1GB/day guideline

I'm possibly being a bit blind, but having just looked through the BTYahoo T&Cs and their User poilcy I cannot find reference to any download restrictions. If you can point me in the direction of where that is laid down, I'd appreciate it as it would affect my judgement on the whole issue, and perhaps my attitude to ntl.

For those who say "off topic", it's on topic because ntl are claiming to be a market leader and thus what they do now, others could consider tommorrow. That's one of the major concerns of anticap. If a player like BT places caps on it's products then the market starts to think it's a practical option and they all follow suit.

There may not be true transparent competition between cable and ADSL services (see my post above), but to joe public there is probably little obvious difference. If caps are a coming thing then as a severe potential restiction in use for the faster tiers, given the "always on" type brandings, ISPs must be obliged under fair trading to make the limitation far more obvious than it is at present. That may be a requirement for the regulators if the industry cannot address that itself.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by rodd

You are allowed to go over the limit for 3 days in 14, as I understand it.

Remind me someone....why is there a cap?

Sorry rodd its two days only as the third triggers the cap in the current wording and the 14 day period is a rolling one so it bites even deeper that way.

As for the reason, well from day one the reason given was peak time congestion and that appears to still be the case now.

[rodd]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

With regards to the "off-peak" usage, from what I can tell, it would be very difficult to monitor. Also the main reason behind the "peak-times" being peak times, is because that's when most people are in and can use the service. I reguarly set downloads up to go overnight (off-peak) but if all high users start doing this then off-peak won't be off peak anymore?! Do you get what I mean?

The point is that the off-peak will not be monitored. That’s simplicity itself. At present, all hours are monitored. You have answered your own question about off-peak becoming less off-peak. [[the "peak-times" being peak times, is because that's when most people are in and can use the service]] Exactly so, they will not all go to the off-peak night-time sleeping hours, making those hours a peak time. The idea is to encourage the heavier usage, such as downloads, to those hours, thus spreading the load of usage. At the moment it is a free-for-all scramble for usage.

The main overwhelming fact is that, were all users to download (under their limit) at the same time you would get massive congestion. So you can see that by spreading the load, and encouraging more users to the off-peak times. The chances of that greater congestion situation is greatly reduced.


P.S. Sociable, I stand corrected on the days.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

This sign on the outside of the van is not Broadband, but dial up. The offer is talk Talk 24 (telco package) and get free cable base pack or unlimited dial up so the rep was correct, on our dial up there is no limit. The question I would ask is did you mention Broadband, if yes, then he was wrong and you should complain, if not you will find he (and the poster) was refering to our unlimited dial up service

Then I had better get my complaining hat on I asked him twice if it was for broadband. He told me - yes 150,600 and 1mb have unlimited internet access and that broadband plus (he made a big deal out of this) was only available for the 600k and 1mb service...

[Florence]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Then I had better get my complaining hat on I asked him twice if it was for broadband. He told me - yes 150,600 and 1mb have unlimited internet access and that broadband plus (he made a big deal out of this) was only available for the 600k and 1mb service...

Yes they would to get you to sign then they kick you with the cap.

[Graham F]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Then I had better get my complaining hat on I asked him twice if it was for broadband. He told me - yes 150,600 and 1mb have unlimited internet access and that broadband plus (he made a big deal out of this) was only available for the 600k and 1mb service...

I think you will find that the ASA have already thrown out a complaint abt the phrase unlimited on posters as it refers to unlimited browsing and does not refer to unlimited downloading. So i think you will find that you will have no success in complaining

good luck though