[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Osem]

Speculators at work. Don't worry about it.

[denphone]

The bookies odds are still the same as Remain is long odds on still.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

You think they're expecting a Remain vote then?

Here in the south east they're probably thinking that if we get many more people moving in we won't need fuel for our cars because they won't be going anywhere.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by ntluser

There is considerable opposition to the EU in other EU countries and if this can be mobilised maybe they can become the dominant force in the EU and change policy.

Many of my European friends are against the EU and the Euro plus think their leaders have betrayed their countries many, many times over.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

Many of my European friends are against the EU and the Euro plus think their leaders have betrayed their countries many, many times over.

Same here.

[Julian]

Saw this online...

The bizarre situation of some people using their democratic right to vote in order to keep in power over them people who have not been appointed by a democratic vote and cannot be removed by a vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36429482

When there is talk about unelected bureaucrats making decisions at the EU, it is usually the European Commission that people have in mind.

The Commission plays a vital role in the EU. It is the body which proposes new legislation, draws up the EU's annual budget and manages and supervises EU funding. The Commission consists of 28 members, one from each member state.

Its president is nominated by the national leaders and then elected by the European Parliament by majority vote. Based on member states' suggestions, the Commission's president selects 27 other members of the Commission for a five-year period, each with a specific policy portfolio.

The European Parliament must approve the Commission as a whole but does not vote on individual commissioners. More importantly, any new legislation proposed by the Commission still has to be agreed by the member states and passed by the European Parliament, which is directly elected by EU voters. The statement of unelected bureaucrats making decisions in the EU is therefore somewhat misleading.

Originally Posted by Hugh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36429482

So as I'm currently living a country that is a member of and has to follow the laws of the EU/EC, How do I vote for the next president of the EC?

I don't remember any one voting for Gordon Brown, or for John Major when he took over from MT.

Anyway, it's a straw man argument, as our elected MEPs vote on things - but you knew that....

You may find this informative

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...s-bureaucrats/

[Mr K]

Rather than boring facts Hugh, give us your vote, in or out (apologies if I've missed it!)

[Julian]

I guess the point is that as Britain is just a pawn in the game, the EU elections carry minimal weight.
It is the General Election in this country where a real European decision can be made.
If today's vote ends up too close there could well be a political bloodbath.
I wonder how many defections there might be.....

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don't remember any one voting for Gordon Brown, or for John Major when he took over from MT.

Anyway, it's a straw man argument, as our elected MEPs vote on things - but you knew that....

You may find this informative

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...s-bureaucrats/

British MEPs are a small minority of the European parliament, which has no pan-European parties and can therefore have no pan-European election campaign. There is no means by which anyone can mount an election campaign based on any meaningful manifesto and it is impossible for anyone to pursue a coherent legislative programme via this Strasbourg-Brussels assembly.

There is no common body politic across Europe - no demos - and without that, you can't escape the fact that the parliament is using the votes of foreigners to over-ride the expressed wishes of the British people and their representatives in it. This is not the case in Westminster, of course, because regardless of regional and national differences we recognise Britishness as a political construct that unites us all.

That is why the European Parliament is undemocratic. Our demos is British, not European, and the European Parliament by its very nature acts against the democratic will of the British people.

Returning officer in Scotland estimates turnout at 70-80%.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It is not modelled on the Tower of Babel - just because Glenn Beck said so, doesn't make it true*....

There are hundreds of buildings of that design, and I've seen some of them in this and other countries - are they all based on the Tower of Babel?

The Tower of Babel is a myth, anyway...

*in fact, if he states something, it usually isn't true...

My reply was to a post by another Christian re what Christians should be considering when deciding how to vote.

I understand, from your posts previously that you are not a Christian and therefore the things that I wrote, naturally seem like nonsense to you. That is fair enough and I have no problem with that. But to practising Christians, it should be very relevant.

I don't know who Glenn Beck is, but David Hathaway is an Evangelical Christian of very long standing. There may be other buildings based on the TOB, but I seem to recall in the video that he says that the European parliament being based on the TOB in the painting is quite generally acknowledged.

For Christians though, the 90s poster should set alarm bells ringing, especially with the inverted stars, which are often associated with the occult.

europe-many-tongues-one-voice-parliament-building-tower-of-babel-babylon.jpg

babel.jpg

eu-european-parliment-louise-weiss-building-tower-babel-building.jpg

I've just been reading a "What if" piece about what if England's votes mean Scotland leaves the EU.

WHAT IF Scotland's votes mean England remains in the EU?