1GB Cap Letter!!!!

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Sociable

Only one flaw in your argument noob and that is congestion in off peak times wont be an issue as it wont affect the vast majority of games players and browsers or any other mainstream users.

Shifting such use out of the peak time will, however, give clear benefits to all users.

Don't forget this was never put forward as being an issue about total usage it was stressed that the need arose because of congestion at peak times only.

Our solution has the benefit of helping shift and balance loads throughout the 24 hour cycle making the most efficient use of the available bandwidth.

As for producing problem off-peak instead, I doubt sufficient downloads would ever shift for this to be a real issue so the probability that of-peak would get congested instead is unlikely to apply unless you are saying the off peak useage is already very high as well.

Oooh don't let Ken Livingstone near this thread he'll introduce congestion charging on the NTL network.

[rodd]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

rodd - I'm not pro-ntl for the sake of it, I'm pro being fair, and pro being reasonable. I guess my issue really is that a guideline is given in the AUP, customers are asked to stick to it, it's made fairly clear they are using above that level. The only time I've seen you post is when you have something anti-ntl to say. I'm also pro-customer that's why I help on here when I can, however at the same time I'm a realist, and accept that with nearly a million cable modem customers and over a million customers in total to have a member of staff sitting there crunching numbers because rodd thinks that ntl should give people who by their own admission use extreme amounts of bandwidth complete breakdowns of their usage seems crazy. Staff are better spent on improving customers experience. Who knows maybe if people decide to query this more information can be presented.

Either way your accusation of this being so that ntl can avoid upgrading wasn't pro customer it was purely anti-ntl, and looks as though it was fallacy. Maybe if ntl offer an uncontended 10mbit to every customer for a fiver a month you'll be happy? All I'm suggesting is being reasonable. Customers have been asked to calm usage down, not at this stage threatened. There are better uses for CS staff than providing detailed breakdowns of customers usage. Those who use massive amounts of bandwidth would if I had a say have been off the service months ago. Some ADSL ISPs have culled crazily heavy users in the past, it's nothing new.

However that isn't the argument here, or the discussion. Were ntl right to send these letters, yes I think they were, and some at least agree with me, others agree but are staying quiet


What people who've received this do is entirely up to them, I would lean towards doing as asked though, or if you can't do that leaving the service. Downloading 2 DVDs a day for £35 a month can't last for ever really?

Hmm, somehow I missed this one.
I'll just deal with some bits.

- rodd thinks that ntl should give people who by their own admission use extreme amounts of bandwidth complete breakdowns of their usage seems crazy.

If they have admitted extreme use, then no need of a breakdown. (Putting words into my mouth).

Letters have been sent prior to any admission, so yes, the amount (evidence) of over usage should be given, which shouldn't be a problem to give, since ntl will have the details to-hand, as they will be writing because of those details at-hand.

Staff are better spent on improving customers experience.

Would not giving customers the details, improve customers experience, rather than keeping customers in the dark.

Either way your accusation of this being so that ntl can avoid upgrading wasn't pro customer it was purely anti-ntl, and looks as though it was fallacy.

That's your opinion.
Sending out such letters without details, will, as sure as hell, make users cut their usage, whether there is justification or not. It is a very clever ploy to use such a psychological method to reduce customers usage, and with obvious benefits to ntl financially. In fact, the resulting discussion of such a letter here, is having a similar effect on some members, of querying amount and reductions.

There are better uses for CS staff than providing detailed breakdowns of customers usage.

Not when ntl sends a letter claiming overuse, since obviously have the details would be to-hand, otherwise why would ntl be sending such a letter. (apart from the above)

That is the kind of attitude at ntl that has got ntl the reputation that it has.!!

Were ntl right to send these letters, yes I think they were, and some at least agree with me, others agree but are staying quiet

......and other disagree but are staying quiet.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Acathla

Where can you buy a car without a speedo?

You can't it's the law. Perhaps OFCOM should create a rule that you cannot put in bandwidth restrictions without providing and supporting monitoring tools.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Oooh don't let Ken Livingstone near this thread he'll introduce congestion charging on the NTL network.

Actually the London Traffic model is a good one as one of the key things they did was to promote the notion of off-peak travel by giving some incentive to avoid peak times.

Applying the current AUP to that model would be saying you can only travel X miles each day but it doesnt matter when you do that. Result would be the majority would pick the rush hour as that is when they want to be there.

Yes some would voluntarily shift their travel times but far more would do if there was some positive benefit for them.

As it stands someone making two off peak journeys would be seen as more of a problem than another making a peak time journey even though they are not adding to congestion at all but actually easing it by changing when they travel. Thus they would still fall foul of the cap but someone else choosing to add to congestion by making a journy at peak time would not.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Womble

When your pulled over for speeding by the police, can you use the excuse you don't have a speedo?? (Odometer)...No. Measure your own usage. If ntl just cut you straight off I could see your point but, aren't the letters warning you that you have exceeded the limit??, and requesting you to slow down??

I have been trying for over a year to get a way to monitor the connection. NTL have teh SNMP blocked and all other routes I have traid have failed.

NTL will not supply a webpage with graphs on showing your usage so technically if you stay with NTL without some alterations to whats on offer you are in for a stressfull experience.
The fun of using the internet, the chance to enjoy whats about to unfold with BBC and NTls own BB+ are worthless.

I was on the phone this morning to NTL and in the autmated part they plug the BB+ as an good addition to the BB which its not as things stand.

I feel 3gig a day if its kept daily should be the target for 1mb most will not use it but at least you can still enjoy the internet.
One important must is NTL have to invest in online montoring graphs for customers to access by loggin in using their user details and password. This has to be working 24/7 so customers can always access them.

I notice this has started again just after the record bonuses to the management. The cap just after AOL signed the big contract to sell BB.. Are AOL customers capped to 1 gig a day

[Blake]

Doubt it, and if not.. why not.

Seems unfair that ntl customers have to adhere to a guideline, and those on ntl network (3rd party) are not.

Wonder if aol users are recieving these letters.

[edit]

Just seen this.

http://www.aol.co.uk/broadband/compa...l?promo=228937

AOL Broadband 1Mb

What can I use it for?

Surfing the Internet, gaming, and watching full-length films. Sending movie files

I guess thats a no then to them being on a daily limit/guideline

[rodd]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

Those arguing for shifting of downloads to offpeak times have a look at this:
http://www.plus.net/supportpages.htm...c477b55b17e8b5

Note there is virtually no drop at all in upstream use, and when you consider that the vast majority of all downstream use is due to 'heavier' users, it'll just shift congestion to a different time of the day.

Quote - [it'll just shift congestion to a different time of the day.] end-quote.

You are almost there (understanding the concept) !! But not quite.......stay with me. The exercise in shifting of downloads is....spread the usage over the day, not move the whole congestion to elsewhere. If you think that everyone is going to move to the night-time, you are not being realistic.

[Sociable]

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that the AOL contract includes the same AUP but they have indicated it will not be applied unless it should prove necessary.

Anyone on the AOL/NTL connection able to confirm this?

[IanUK]

Now on the register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/35684.html

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

No the communist model is exactly what you are preaching, equal shares for everybody, everybody is equal. You however appear to be confusing this with the failed russian model of communism - everybody is equal but I'm better than you.

Exactly my thoughts on this. Advocating everyone pays their share and gets the same back as everyone else is communism. Surely it's extreme capitalism at the moment, pay the most and also get the most out of it. I guess some got their economics and political science rooms mixed up!

The main problem with the communism is of course that if you only ever get the same amount back there is no incentive to put any extra in. In fact there is every incentive to put nothing in and take everything offered. So everyone goes down to 150k and just maxes out their conns 24/7. Results on NTL network would not change much, but the 50% cut in money coming in would certainly do something!

[Florence]

Originally Posted by IanUK

Now on the register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/35684.html

Was already reported on ispreview this morning

Originally Posted by Blake

[edit]

Just seen this.

http://www.aol.co.uk/broadband/compa...l?promo=228937

AOL Broadband 1Mb

What can I use it for?

Surfing the Internet, gaming, and watching full-length films. Sending movie files

I guess thats a no then to them being on a daily limit/guideline

this is the T&C for AOL BB that link is for BT line BB
T&C and agreement to be signed scroll down and click on T&C for ntl BB below where you put in your postcode.

[cjmillsnun]

Originally Posted by Dr. Plummer

I agree but my main point is that ntl do not advertise the fact that their broadband service is shared with other customers or tell them that they cannot exactly do what they want to do with their connection i.e there is a download limit being enforced etc.

Neither do BT, but BT have exactly the same cap in force on their 512k BT Broadband package.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by cjmillsnun

Neither do BT, but BT have exactly the same cap in force on their 512k BT Broadband package.

BT do have a capped or basic service package, but customers have a choice as they could use the very slightly more expensive uncapped service. I'm not sure but once I think these two were branded BT Broadband & BT Openworld, now of course openworld is BT Yahoo or something daft. Bottom line here is BT did offer their customers a choice as to what they wanted if they want to pay for it. NTL theres no choice - take it or leave it but preferably if you take it you mustn't.

[testcard]

Dear ntl Broadband User

We are deeply concerned regarding your internet use and the affects on our profitability.

We introduced †˜The Capââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ to allow more users to join thus enhance our profits.
[The idea came from a bus company who removed the seats from their busses allowing more passengers to travel without buying any more busses.]
Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m sure you can see how your limiting internet use can really help us, especially towards the end of the financial year.

While we are currently distracting you with †˜The Capââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ please be assured we are working ever harder to improve your profit contribution and reduce our costs.


Yours truly,


Support ntl team

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Acathla

Where can you buy a car without a speedo?

lol you beat me to it

heh