Madeleine McCann

Originally Posted by Gavin

That's not it though. Its not about being a perfect parent. Its about being an adult.

Part of being an adult is facing up to your responsibilities and consequences of your actions. Everyone has to face their responsibilities. Its not just a witchhunt from so-called armchair perfect parents.

The grandmother who killed her grandchild through her own negligence has to face her actions, regardless of the fact she is greiving and has it on her conscience that she is responsible for the death of her grandchild. We can't let everyone free from responsibility because they are grieving. With circumstances like this though, I don't think there will ever be a good time to approach this though, but it will have to be approached sooner or later.

just approach it why namby pamby around

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Gavin

That's not it though. Its not about being a perfect parent. Its about being an adult.

Part of being an adult is facing up to your responsibilities and consequences of your actions. Everyone has to face their responsibilities. Its not just a witchhunt from so-called armchair perfect parents.

The grandmother who killed her grandchild through her own negligence has to face her actions, regardless of the fact she is greiving and has it on her conscience that she is responsible for the death of her grandchild. We can't let everyone free from responsibility because they are grieving. With circumstances like this though, I don't think there will ever be a good time to approach this though, but it will have to be approached sooner or later.

Thats exactly how I feel. Well put.

[Locky]

Originally Posted by Gavin

That's not it though. Its not about being a perfect parent. Its about being an adult.

Part of being an adult is facing up to your responsibilities and consequences of your actions. Everyone has to face their responsibilities. Its not just a witchhunt from so-called armchair perfect parents.

The grandmother who killed her grandchild through her own negligence has to face her actions, regardless of the fact she is greiving and has it on her conscience that she is responsible for the death of her grandchild. We can't let everyone free from responsibility because they are grieving. With circumstances like this though, I don't think there will ever be a good time to approach this though, but it will have to be approached sooner or later.

also agree very well said

[Osem]

Agree totally Gavin !! Some people seem to be more aware of their rights than their responsibilities. I think a much harsher view would've prevailed in the media had the child in question been from a single parent family for example. In fact had this been the case I feel the whole matter would very sadly be so much chip paper by now.

It reminds me of the Louise Woodward case some years back when IIRC the parents concerned were 2 very well educated medical professionals who felt it was a good idea to enturst their 8 month old child's welfare (solely for very long periods IIRC) to an untrained teenage au-pair. They had the wherewithal to employ a properly trained nanny but chose not to do so and must still be very much regretting that decision.

[etccarmageddon]

which is why we have all these yobs hanging around street corners. lack of parental responsibility.

[Osem]

Well that's very true and HMG seems hell bent on us all working all the time with kids in the care of others as opposed to the old fashioned notion of a parent at home. It seems that having children and actually bringing them up (quite probably having to sacrifice certain things in order to do so) just isn't considered acceptable anymore.

[slug]

For the first time in a while this forum is trying to have a serious discussion about a current news story and some people here just don't seem to want it. I off to start a thread about how much I am in love with Murdoch/Branson.

[joglynne]

I am not claiming to be a perfect parent and would not believe anyone here who claimed to be one. We have all, I am sure, taken a deep breath after something has happened that could have had a bad outcome. What has happened to Maddie and her parents is a lesson to us all to not be complacent.

I do not condone the actions of these parents. However, as I see it, Maddie was targeted by her abductor/s. What her parents did that night was give these monsters a window of opportunity. The consequences of leaving their 3 small children with no supervision is a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Had she not been left alone that night I believe that her abductor/s would have just taken her at another time. If you can agree that she may have been targeted, and if the window of opportunity had been a few moments distraction, say on the beach, or in a crowded shop, would you still be putting the parents in the pillory whilst their child was missing? If it had happened in that way to you how would you feel if, at this stage, you were continually criticised by complete strangers who had just read about it in a newspaper or in a news broadcast?

Yes they may well have to face some form of official censure or prosecution in the future but the time is not now.

Add:
I don’t believe anyone on this thread feels that what the McCann’s did was right, arguing about the wording and timing of posts isn’t achieving anything.

notice how the softie softie approachers have less to say when the realists hit home?????

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Originally Posted by joglynne

I am not claiming to be a perfect parent and would not believe anyone here who claimed to be one. We have all, I am sure, taken a deep breath after something has happened that could have had a bad outcome. What has happened to Maddie and her parents is a lesson to us all to not be complacent.

I do not condone the actions of these parents. However, as I see it, Maddie was targeted by her abductor/s. What her parents did that night was give these monsters a window of opportunity. The consequences of leaving their 3 small children with no supervision is a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Had she not been left alone that night I believe that her abductor/s would have just taken her at another time. If you can agree that she may have been targeted, and if the window of opportunity had been a few moments distraction, say on the beach, or in a crowded shop, would you still be putting the parents in the pillory whilst their child was missing? If it had happened in that way to you how would you feel if, at this stage, you were continually criticised by complete strangers who had just read about it in a newspaper or in a news broadcast?

Yes they may well have to face some form of official censure or prosecution in the future but the time is not now.

Add:
I don’t believe anyone on this thread feels that what the McCann’s did was right, arguing about the wording and timing of posts isn’t achieving anything.

the wishy washy im a nice person approach is acheiving even less the harsh lifes a bitch method might save lives

[etccarmageddon]

it's about priorities - you are 2 parents and your priority is

a)to go out for a meal and leave your kids locked in a hotel room - sleeping in the same bed. so no-one is there if there is a fire and also the risk of one kid smothering the other while asleep.

or

b)face up to being a responsible parent.


I accept that there are excuses for other people not to be always there for their kids - e.g. single parents - but when both of you are together and happily married you have no excuse to cut corners in your parental responsibilities.

[joglynne]

By Zinglebard :the wishy washy im a nice person approach is acheiving even less the harsh lifes a bitch method might save lives

But continually saying the same thing over and over again makes people stop listening. Why do you feel the need to attack all the time? I know that life can stink at times, You don't know me or what I've had to live through, I just don't need to be aggressive all the time.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by joglynne

I am not claiming to be a perfect parent and would not believe anyone here who claimed to be one. We have all, I am sure, taken a deep breath after something has happened that could have had a bad outcome. What has happened to Maddie and her parents is a lesson to us all to not be complacent.

I do not condone the actions of these parents. However, as I see it, Maddie was targeted by her abductor/s. What her parents did that night was give these monsters a window of opportunity. The consequences of leaving their 3 small children with no supervision is a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Had she not been left alone that night I believe that her abductor/s would have just taken her at another time. If you can agree that she may have been targeted, and if the window of opportunity had been a few moments distraction, say on the beach, or in a crowded shop, would you still be putting the parents in the pillory whilst their child was missing? If it had happened in that way to you how would you feel if, at this stage, you were continually criticised by complete strangers who had just read about it in a newspaper or in a news broadcast?

Yes they may well have to face some form of official censure or prosecution in the future but the time is not now.

Add:
I don’t believe anyone on this thread feels that what the McCann’s did was right, arguing about the wording and timing of posts isn’t achieving anything.

If she hasd been targetted and snatched, say at teh beach while her parents had been looking the other way, I would not have made a lot of the posts I've contributed to on this thread.

The facts are that targetted or not, she was left in an apartment alone. This is disgraceful, stupid, selfish and irresponsible behaviour, whether she was abducted or not. If Maddie hadn't been snatched and it was reported that a couple of holiday makers had left their kids in similar circumstances, my opinions of the parents behaviour would be the same even if nothing had happened to them. Its not the behavious I expect from responsible adults.

They had no excuses for doing this, I believe they are affluent people, and I do not think that they would have had a financial problem paying for a baby sitter.

I have a 2 and a half year old daughter. When I go on holiday she comes with us for dinner. And most of the time we have to have dinner by 7ish coause she wants to be in bed before 9. Because she's with us there are a lot of things me and my wife cant do if we had been holidaying alone. We can't go to restaurants alone, we cant stay out all night, we cant go for romantic beach walks by moonlight. But you know what, thats life and that the responsibility and sacrifices that goes with being a parent. No Im not perfect, but I can honestly say hand heart, that I would never leave my child alone in that manner.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, I wouldnt wish a child being abducted on anyone. The facts are though that Maddie wasn't snatched from the beach or the park, but from a house where she was left alone with 2 other under 5s. I think a lot of the posters on this thread are getting worked up about the fact that they (Maddies parents) neglected their duties and responsibilities as parents, even if it was just for this one occassion.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

I do not know anyone personally that would think leaving 3 very young children alone in a locked building is safe in the first place. What this case shows me is even educated people can act totally out of selfishness and because of that be very very very irresponsible indeed

Was it really a locked building? The way I have heard it described by someone who has been there is, that all the apartments were connected and closed of, with a large manned reception area just along the corridor, offering a family friendly service, they didn't hear anything, perhaps if the parents were in the next room they wouldn't have heard anything either, that said if the parents were there they'd at least have had a chance to stop him, that's why I don't think anything anyone say's here is going to upset the parents or anyone associated with them, they will beat themselves up till the day they die far better than any here could manage

Originally Posted by joglynne

But continually saying the same thing over and over again makes people stop listening. Why do you feel the need to attack all the time? I know that life can stink at times, You don't know me or what I've had to live through, I just don't need to be aggressive all the time.

Cuz few have noted what im really saying.
---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Was it really a locked building? The way I have heard it described by someone who has been there is, that all the apartments were connected and closed of, with a large manned reception area just along the corridor, offering a family friendly service, they didn't hear anything, perhaps if the parents were in the next room they wouldn't have heard anything either, that said if the parents were there they'd at least have had a chance to stop him, that's why I don't think anything anyone say's here is going to upset the parents or anyone associated with them, they will beat themselves up till the day they die far better than any here could manage

so there doors were not locked then? so they left 3 unattended children in an unlocked building? thats even worse !!!!!!!!!

my views could stop it happening again white washing it will acheive nothing. If my views are wrong please tell me anyone admin mods anyone tell me im wrong go on

Fact Maddie could be dead could be sold could be in the hands of paedophiles and the opportunity arouse for this purely because she was left unattended with two 2 year old while the parents went and had dinner fact fact fact

[joglynne]

Saaf_laandon_mo

I think a lot of the posters on this thread are getting worked up about the fact that they (Maddies parents) neglected their duties and responsibilities as parents, even if it was just for this one occassion.

And who is arguing with them. One of my points is that we are all saying the same thing! Repeatedly.I also stand by:-

I don’t believe anyone on this thread feels that what the McCann’s did was right, arguing about the wording and timing of posts isn’t achieving anything.

posted by zinglebarb: Cuz few have noted what im really saying. Mind you if you were to realise how much rep points I had earned in this thread only cuz I speak the truth you would be surprised.

Yes and I was one who gave you a rep, but do you want each and everyone of us to acknowledge your point each time you repeat it.