Another cyclist killed in London

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Lets put it this way. Many years ago I used to drive in Central London, and in the City

Now l drive to work and then cycle in my job. Its ok for people to say that cyclist need educating, like l have said many times before.

But Lorries have large signs now on the rear of Lorries WARNING cyclist NOT to pass on the 'blind side' BUT now they have so much to prevent cyclist or even pedestrian accidents.

However, troo many times you will get drivers who will just drive on or turn left or right without realising there is a cyclist there.

WHY, because most of the cyclist that l have seen do not have HI VIS and therefore cannot be seen.

With cyclist, day or night they should wear Hi Vis and have LIGHTS on working at all times, so they can be seen

The only thing l can think on lorries - is have sensors that detect, if there is ANYTHING within so many inches from there lorry, such as human.

I am sadden that someone has died on our roads yet again. But l believe that before Cycle leaves a shop, they should have to pass a test, before hitting the road - like drivers do. and get a Cycle Test.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Lets put it this way. Many years ago I used to drive in Central London, and in the City

Was that the taxi driving job?

The trouble with London and cyclists is that everyone's in a rush.

[Stephen]

I don't know the figures for the rest of the country but there has only been 8 cyclist deaths in London this year and 7 involved lorries.

That to me doesn't seem very high at all, although any deaths aren't right.

We don't know what actually happened in this case but blame can't just be placed on the cyclist. Looking at the photos it looks like the lorry driver may not have seen the cyclist.

Perhaps what needs to be done is fit lorries with dash cams so they can see to the side and behind them. As we are always being shown adverts to remind drivers to remember to watch out for motorbikes and bikes.

[heero_yuy]

Lorries do have some blind spots but it is also beholden on other road users, not just cyclists, to ensure that the driver CAN see you.

Remember if you can't see the driver directly or in his mirrors he's unlikely to be able to see you.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Fundamentally there are too many people needing to use the roads. Our cities were never built for the levels of traffic that exists. In turn that can lead to far too many users getting a little impatient and trying to gain that extra inch forward, and that creates conflict.

If you drive a vehicle, you have a protective shell around you. At the lower speeds in heavy traffic, that means a dent in the bodywork. But the cyclist, and motorcyclist does not have that protection and that means potential for serious injury.

We don't know the facts of this particular incident so shouldn't rush to apportion blame. But any death is one too many.

The cycling lobby seems to be particularly vociferous at the moment in their clamour for change. There has to be recognition at all levels of a need to reduce conflict.

Banning lorries isn't the answer. Buses are just as dangerous. Perhaps the old cycling proficiency training that I had in the 1970s when at primary school (yes I am that ancient) needs to be reintroduced, in a modern way, possibly with simulators so cyclist can appreciate what it is to be a driver of a larger vehicle. Then, maybe, cyclists would think twice before undertaking.

Signs on vehicles don't work. We know cyclists don't follow rules. Traffic lights, pavements, etc are all fair game for that extra inch on the road. Indeed, that is why they cycle, it's because it can be quicker and weaving in and out is satisfying. This behaviour is too ingrained. But of course it is the driver of the vehicle that has to live with the guilt.

I'm not even sure that properly integrated and designed segregated cycle routes would work. There is a big fast three lane roundabout near me, with a good cycle path route linked with underpasses so they can avoid it. But I still see people wobbling on two wheels across the thing when all sorts are playing dodgems at 40mph around them. Other cycle paths are simply ignored as the cyclist loses all priority at any crossing, driveway, whatever, and worse the path often simply peters out when reaching the busier pinch point junction. Planners have a part to play in proper joined up thinking, but, this shouldn't be at the expense of other road users whose journey time increases through more complex and slower chicanes.

Fundamentally many cyclists need to ride more defensively, whilst drivers themselves maintain the highest possible awareness.

[Osem]

This death, tragic as it is, is just another of many thousands which happen every year on our roads and which rarely get mentioned. Like drivers, there are good cyclists and bad ones - those who take all reasonable precautions and ride carefully and those who dart in/out of traffic or cycle without lights/helmets/reflective clothing etc. as if they have a death wish.

The road network in much of C. London wasn't really designed for cars let alone huge lorries, buses, motorcycles and bikes. Accidents are inevitable and whatever is done by way of throwing money at the problem will, IMHO, be subject to the law of diminishing returns in terms of the number of cyclists killed/injured and may well actually cause more accidents elsewhere due to the transference of traffic/congestion and associated problems to different routes. IMHO the most effective way to reduce fatalities and serious injuries is to better educate both drivers and cyclists but the truth is that until more cyclists can be persuaded to do some form of training, better observe the rules of the road and wear appropriate safety related clothing etc. the accidents will continue. Just because a bike can fit in a small gap doesn't mean it's sensible or safe to do it but so often you see bikes weaving their way through the tightest of gaps between huge vehicles, often putting themselves at great risk and usually for little if any advantage.

I have no problem with cycle routes being created - we have quite a few around here - but the truth is that they're rarely used for the very same reasons that pedestrians will often choose to cross a road in an unsafe location just to avoid walking a 50 yards further to the nearest safe crossing point. Most of the time they get away with it but every so often they're unlucky and wind up killed or injured simply because they decided to take a risk. Even where barriers are put up to deter this and encourage pedestrians to use designated crossings and footbridges, people are often loathe to use them, preferring to take their chances with the traffic. The same is true of some cyclists who'll happily either ignore red lights or even mount the pavement or ignore road signs just to avoid being held up by them.

Tackling this problem properly is going to require re-educating all road users, not just drivers, and right now there seems to be no serious will or strategy to encourage the training of cyclists or crack down on their irresponsible behaviour. Consequently they're left with the impression that when things go wrong it's always someone else's fault and someone else who needs to modify their behaviour.

Interesting fact-based article from the BBC last year on Cyclists injuries/fatalities.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29878233

[dave6x]

Originally Posted by Osem

This death, tragic as it is, is just another of many thousands which happen every year on our roads and which rarely get mentioned. Like drivers, there are good cyclists and bad ones - those who take all reasonable precautions and ride carefully and those who dart in/out of traffic or cycle without lights/helmets/reflective clothing etc. as if they have a death wish.

The road network in much of C. London wasn't really designed for cars let alone huge lorries, buses, motorcycles and bikes. Accidents are inevitable and whatever is done by way of throwing money at the problem will, IMHO, be subject to the law of diminishing returns in terms of the number of cyclists killed/injured and may well actually cause more accidents elsewhere due to the transference of traffic/congestion and associated problems to different routes. IMHO the most effective way to reduce fatalities and serious injuries is to better educate both drivers and cyclists but the truth is that until more cyclists can be persuaded to do some form of training, better observe the rules of the road and wear appropriate safety related clothing etc. the accidents will continue. Just because a bike can fit in a small gap doesn't mean it's sensible or safe to do it but so often you see bikes weaving their way through the tightest of gaps between huge vehicles, often putting themselves at great risk and usually for little if any advantage.

I have no problem with cycle routes being created - we have quite a few around here - but the truth is that they're rarely used for the very same reasons that pedestrians will often choose to cross a road in an unsafe location just to avoid walking a 50 yards further to the nearest safe crossing point. Most of the time they get away with it but every so often they're unlucky and wind up killed or injured simply because they decided to take a risk. Even where barriers are put up to deter this and encourage pedestrians to use designated crossings and footbridges, people are often loathe to use them, preferring to take their chances with the traffic. The same is true of some cyclists who'll happily either ignore red lights or even mount the pavement or ignore road signs just to avoid being held up by them.

Tackling this problem properly is going to require re-educating all road users, not just drivers, and right now there seems to be no serious will or strategy to encourage the training of cyclists or crack down on their irresponsible behaviour. Consequently they're left with the impression that when things go wrong it's always someone else's fault and someone else who needs to modify their behaviour.

A well considered response that I fully agree with.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Osem

This death, tragic as it is, is just another of many thousands which happen every year on our roads and which rarely get mentioned. Like drivers, there are good cyclists and bad ones - those who take all reasonable precautions and ride carefully and those who dart in/out of traffic or cycle without lights/helmets/reflective clothing etc. as if they have a death wish.

The road network in much of C. London wasn't really designed for cars let alone huge lorries, buses, motorcycles and bikes. Accidents are inevitable and whatever is done by way of throwing money at the problem will, IMHO, be subject to the law of diminishing returns in terms of the number of cyclists killed/injured and may well actually cause more accidents elsewhere due to the transference of traffic/congestion and associated problems to different routes. IMHO the most effective way to reduce fatalities and serious injuries is to better educate both drivers and cyclists but the truth is that until more cyclists can be persuaded to do some form of training, better observe the rules of the road and wear appropriate safety related clothing etc. the accidents will continue. Just because a bike can fit in a small gap doesn't mean it's sensible or safe to do it but so often you see bikes weaving their way through the tightest of gaps between huge vehicles, often putting themselves at great risk and usually for little if any advantage.

I have no problem with cycle routes being created - we have quite a few around here - but the truth is that they're rarely used for the very same reasons that pedestrians will often choose to cross a road in an unsafe location just to avoid walking a 50 yards further to the nearest safe crossing point. Most of the time they get away with it but every so often they're unlucky and wind up killed or injured simply because they decided to take a risk. Even where barriers are put up to deter this and encourage pedestrians to use designated crossings and footbridges, people are often loathe to use them, preferring to take their chances with the traffic. The same is true of some cyclists who'll happily either ignore red lights or even mount the pavement or ignore road signs just to avoid being held up by them.

Tackling this problem properly is going to require re-educating all road users, not just drivers, and right now there seems to be no serious will or strategy to encourage the training of cyclists or crack down on their irresponsible behaviour. Consequently they're left with the impression that when things go wrong it's always someone else's fault and someone else who needs to modify their behaviour.

I have a full car license, a full motorcycle license and I have been cycling all my life. This seems a fairly good 'education' in road sense and road craft. A proficiency test or cycle training will not make a ha'peth of difference to the way I ride.

And yet frequently when I cycle, someone in a motor vehicle does something that is threatening or downright dangerous.

All the pontificating in all the World is not going to change the fact that some motorists see cyclists as a nuisance and for as long as we share roadspace I will cycle in whatever way it takes to stay alive.

[Doug P]

Originally Posted by weenie

At the end of the day another life has been lost and my thoughts are with her family and the driver of the lorry.

My thoughts too but too many cyclists are untrained or undertrained, do not observe the rules of the road and cause a danger to pedestrians on pavements the way vehicles are a danger to them.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Doug P

My thoughts too but too many cyclists are untrained or undertrained, do not observe the rules of the road and cause a danger to pedestrians on pavements the way vehicles are a danger to them.

What a thoughtful epitaph

[Hom3r]

I've been a cyclist I used to cycle to school everyday (6 mile round trip), I was taught road safety in the playground of my junior school.

Then 27 years ago I passed my driving test and rarely rode a bike since.

I drive and I never go along side any HGV/dumper trucks, as the size means they could encroach in my lane, and clip my car. so I hold back.

So why do cyclist think they are immortal?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

To me Cyclist think they are a law on there own. I have seen cyclist through RED LIGHTS at the A4 junction at Gillette Corner is a accident black spot.

I have seen cyclist go between buses, and hold onto the bus while the other one is moving.

Cyclist must realise, that there safety is on the own judgment.

I seen loads of accidents on the pavement where it is an offence of cycling.

Even when l drive my car, l don't go anywhere near it, or even juggernauts

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

I've been a cyclist I used to cycle to school everyday (6 mile round trip), I was taught road safety in the playground of my junior school.

Then 27 years ago I passed my driving test and rarely rode a bike since.

I drive and I never go along side any HGV/dumper trucks, as the size means they could encroach in my lane, and clip my car. so I hold back.

So why do cyclist think they are immortal?

Because cycle lanes are sited on the inside lane to allow cyclists to get to the head of the queue?

There was no such thing 27 years ago.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

To me Cyclist think they are a law on there own. I have seen cyclist through RED LIGHTS at the A4 junction at Gillette Corner is a accident black spot.

I have seen cyclist go between buses, and hold onto the bus while the other one is moving.

Cyclist must realise, that there safety is on the own judgment.

I seen loads of accidents on the pavement where it is an offence of cycling.

Even when l drive my car, l don't go anywhere near it, or even juggernauts

I imagine you've seen motorists doing stupid things too?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

To me Cyclists think they are a law on their own. I have seen cyclists go through RED LIGHTS at the A4 junction at Gillette Corner, its an accident black spot.

I have seen a cyclist go between buses, and hold onto the bus while the other one is moving.

Cyclists must realise, that their safety is on their own judgement.

I have seen loads of accidents on the pavement where it is an offence to cycle.

Even when l drive my car, l don't go anywhere near it, or even juggernauts

Aside from your spelling and grammer there is so much wrong with this post, yes cyclists do silly things and I have been nearly knocked over crossing at a green man.

However motorists are also guilty of similar, ie jumping red lights, speeding up at amber lights, undertaking to name a few. They have passed driving tests so in your words should be safe and know better. One cyclists nearly ran me over yes but at crossings it happens daily with cars, who speed up at the sight of an amber light. When in fact they should be slowing down as it is a sign the lights will go red any moment.

I've seen cars side-swiped at junctions because they have speed to an amber light.

Yes cyclists need to be more careful, but the car and lorry drivers need to be just as careful as they think they are invincible in their metal boxes.