Yobo's, Burglars laughing there socks off.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Jeans.

Hardly likely Gary.

Arthur and the specials were patently anti jeans as can be witnessed by his historic derisory lyric..."Mum bought you a fur coat when you were 15, you wore it to the disco where everyone was in jeans".

[Niles Crane]

I assume if he was going out Friday night, they'd be a pair of Levi Sta-Prest trousers. Saturday morning, the same of course.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Niles Crane

I assume if he was going out Friday night, they'd be a pair of Levi Sta-Prest trousers. Saturday morning, the same of course.

Most probably Niles. It appears that he's just a stereotype.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

My main concern is that without officers on the beat, crime will sore.

Depends how many beat officers they are cutting. As I understand it, they have said they are cutting 2,500 posts but have not said where.

---------- Post added at 01:26 ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Everyday in the news you hear of yobos running riot on estates, giving grief to old people that cannot defend themself, it is about time this country realises that crime will increase due to these cutbacks and it will get worse.

It's not only lack of police causing that. In fact, I would argue that lack of police is not the cause at all. I doubt that anyone thinks "Oh, as there are fewer police around, I'll go and smack that old lady opposite about".

There are many probable causes for yob culture (I won't put "today's" because I don't think yob culture is anything new).

I would suspect the main cause of yob culture is simply that a lot of parents do not attempt to engage with their children, just leaving the kids to go out with their friends, and learn how to behave from them. The limited engaging the parents do is limited to shouting at them when they have done something wrong.

Another thing is that I think kids need access to some sort of strong authority figure. In some households, it's the father, but it can just as easily be anyone else.

I say Authority figure, and put like that, it looks a little sinister. It isn't (necessarily). Kids need someone to set them boundries. Undoubtedly, sometimes they will overstep them, but teach the kid correctly and you won't need to punish them for doing that.

Will Police cuts cause crime rates to rise? Depends how they are handled, and what other measures are in place at the time (such as PCSOs).

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Will Police cuts cause crime rates to rise? Depends how they are handled, and what other measures are in place at the time (such as PCSOs).

Stuart, nobody takes PCSOs seriously. I've seen instances where the kids are walking behind them giving them abuse while they just carry on walking with an embarassed grin on their face.

[TheDaddy]

If they cut the paperwork down no one would notice the difference in numbers....

[papa smurf]

[Admin Edit(Mick):-Stupid and uncalled for remark deleted-Infractions will be issued next time I see comments like that again.]

[Ignitionnet]

Arthur, how ever did we get by without the extra police officers?

Oh yeah, they were actually on the beat instead of doing mounds of paperwork and community relations.

Perhaps if the police actually followed the Home Secretary's request to stop following targets and, you know, police, there would be no issues.

The police are getting defensive, they have had all this extra resources thrown at them, been given loads of paperwork to do and now there's an entire army of desk jockeys who are worried they'll lose their nice cushy jobs sitting on their arses and either have to do real police work again or be made redundant.

The prophecies of doom are a symptom of this, same as every other organisation that's inefficient and facing cuts.

Either way you're naive to believe this. We weren't a lawless state where criminals roamed the streets raping and pillaging before Labour hired a load of police then packed them away in offices and won't be one after those in the offices are removed.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The police are getting defensive, they have had all this extra resources thrown at them, been given loads of paperwork to do and now there's an entire army of desk jockeys who are worried they'll lose their nice cushy jobs sitting on their arses and either have to do real police work again or be made redundant.

I've said it before but I think every cop up to Chief Inspector level should serve a minimum of 6 months every 2 years in a frontline role instead of moving from desk to desk and being out of touch with reality.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The prophecies of doom are a symptom of this, same as every other organisation that's inefficient and facing cuts.

Yep, you can also see the NHS, courts system (for my mind the worst organized and most useless system I've ever had the misfortune to come across), and many others complaining that they should be exempted from the looming cuts.

[Taf]

I heard yesterday that the Met expects all new entrants to the force to do 18 months as volunteers and pay for part of their training. If this rolls out UK-wide what would policing be like?

Having worked with Police forces, I can tell you that there is a LOT of excess manpower, both uniformed and civilian, that spends its time trying to justify their existence.... and upsetting the ones with real roles in the process.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Taf

I heard yesterday that the Met expects all new entrants to the force to do 18 months as volunteers and pay for part of their training. If this rolls out UK-wide what would policing be like?

A nightmare. Currently some of the best recruits the police get are ex-forces. Are they wanting them to do two years as a special before joining?

I've no problem with specials being given preferential treatment in the recruitment process but there should always be an option for direct entry for exceptional candidates.

Originally Posted by Taf

Having worked with Police forces, I can tell you that there is a LOT of excess manpower, both uniformed and civilian, that spends its time trying to justify their existence.... and upsetting the ones with real roles in the process.

Damn right.

I can't find the figures right now but there was something I saw recently that showed if numbers were cut by what is being suggested they would go back to 2000 levels and I can't remember roving gangs raping and pillaging back then.

What has happened since then is all the new recruits are there to replace cops shunted sideways into offices, teams to target whatever is currently in vogue this month and to scrutinize the mountains of paperwork demand by the paper shufflers, bean counters and lawyers.

[Ignitionnet]

I don't envy you Derek. Must drive you mad seeing a Home Secretary who 'gets it' and wants you guys free to do police work again, but your higher ups are obstructing it to keep their laurel cushioned arses comfortable.

All i have seen is the word "posts" mentioned no one as far as i know has actually said police officers are going to be axed. Yes there probably will be a few but the fact is the police forces of the UK like all other government run things in the last thirteen years have been massively overstaffed in all the wrong areas and cutting back on that doesn't mean frontline or normal services will be affected in fact it might actually mean the opposite. For another example people could get up in arms if they read the headline "armed forces to axe 10,000" but that could mean the MOD gets cleaned out of the many thousands of useless paper pushers that do nothing for the good or efficency of the armed forces. Sorry it might be pedantic but Arthur start linking when you post threads please it isn't that hard and would make your threads a bit easier because sometimes it is a bit like ------- in the wind trying to know exactly what we are commenting on.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I don't envy you Derek. Must drive you mad seeing a Home Secretary who 'gets it' and wants you guys free to do police work again, but your higher ups are obstructing it to keep their laurel cushioned arses comfortable.

It's no-where near as bad up here as it is down in England and Wales but slowly they are adopting all the bad ideas from down south that they are now trying to get rid of.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Stuart, nobody takes PCSOs seriously. I've seen instances where the kids are walking behind them giving them abuse while they just carry on walking with an embarassed grin on their face.

I was using PCSOs as an example.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Admin Edit

There's no need for that.

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

This who thing reminds me of the fireman strikes a couple of years back in London. The Fire Officers (whatever they call them now) were on strike because apparently the cuts in the London Fire Brigade would threaten lives. Fair enough, if true.

However, a friend of mine worked for the brigade at the time, and apparently where the cuts would have happened, they thought it would make little difference. They were looking to cut evening and night cover in certain Central London and City areas. The reasoning being that these areas had millions of workers, but very few (if any) residents, so the only thing to protect from fire at night in those areas was empty buildings.