Virgin Media - STM [BBC Watchdog]

[Robbie G]

Oops. That's what you get for copy-pasting! Thanks for clearing that up.

[xgfx]

I've posted a complaint also. I posted free form.

Virgin Media advertise their cable services as 'unlimited' however they take every opportunity to limit the user with every chance they have. At the moment a 'large' (4mb) tier customer like myself, can download no more than 800mb between 4-9pm. If this limit is exceeded my connection is mamed to 1mb. This is a severe cut in service. I have two computers in my household, a wii, and an xbox 360 all using the internet connection. It would only take two iPlayer episodes, or a game demo from the Xbox 360 Live marketplace and my connection would be choked for 5 hours from the limit being met. This is unacceptable, and not transparent in their bold 'knocking of other providers' advertising. They say only the top 5% of their customers would reach the limit, but where they get these figures from I do not know. How many consumers own an Xbox, Wii or have a home network these days? This cannot be right. Virgin media are often seen in stores such as Currys bundling their services with a free subscription to Xbox Live. What good would that be if you are punished for using it?

[watzizname]

Originally Posted by xgfx

I've posted a complaint also. I posted free form.

Originally Posted by xgfx

Virgin Media advertise their cable services as 'unlimited' however they take every opportunity to limit the user with every chance they have. At the moment a 'large' (4mb) tier customer like myself, can download no more than 800mb between 4-9pm. If this limit is exceeded my connection is mamed to 1mb. This is a severe cut in service. I have two computers in my household, a wii, and an xbox 360 all using the internet connection. It would only take two iPlayer episodes, or a game demo from the Xbox 360 Live marketplace and my connection would be choked for 5 hours from the limit being met. This is unacceptable, and not transparent in their bold 'knocking of other providers' advertising. They say only the top 5% of their customers would reach the limit, but where they get these figures from I do not know. How many consumers own an Xbox, Wii or have a home network these days? This cannot be right. Virgin media are often seen in stores such as Currys bundling their services with a free subscription to Xbox Live. What good would that be if you are punished for using it?

Bravo mate, very nicely put

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by xgfx

I've posted a complaint also. I posted free form.

It's spelt "maimed".

Other than that, fantastic argument.

[TehTech]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Everyone who is stating in their complaint that 80/20 Thinking are an official body are incorrect, they are a consultancy...

Link

They are being paid to do a certain job, so this makes them "official bodies"

[cook1984]

See my thread about iPlayer: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34780957

This debunks the myth that only 5% of users are affected, and also shows that there are clear limits defined by Virgin on how much iPlayer you can watch.

[DABhand]

You know I started a thread about letting people know about STM and the deplorable 75% throttle, but I get amassed by VM lovers... Im amazed this thread hasnt been ambushed yet either :P

Would be good if it did get on the show, perhaps they will ask the question "Why 75%?".

[cook1984]

75% is not accurate. Your download speed drops by 75%, but your upload speed drops too. The total loss is more like 85-90%.

Here is my complaint to the ASA:

Virgin Media claims that this service is "unlimited". If you read the fine print at http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...t/traffic.html , it turns out that it is not unlimited.

For example, 1 hour of BBC iPlayer HD requires approximately 1200MB of data to be transferred. According to the above web page, an L size user would only be able to watch 1 hour of HD TV in the evening and an M size user about 40 minutes. Even for standard definition programmes which require about 600MB per hour, an M user could only watch for about 1 hour 15 minutes.

Of course, BBC iPlayer is not the only application affected, all internet applications and web sites are similarly limited. The decrease in speed is states as 75%, however they also decrease the upload speed (the 75% refers only to download speed) so in fact the real amount is well over 80%. When speed is reduced that far, it is no longer possible to watch HD or standard definition programmes on iPlayer or any other service.

These limits are clear, measurable and affect all users. Virgin claim that they only affect 5% of customers, but the iPlayer alone is extremely popular with millions of users (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...k_preview.html , five million page views a day).

In the past, Virgin Media has claimed that it's throttling of broadband speeds was "normal network management", however many ISPs now offer truly unlimited service without throttling, notably Sky, Be Unlimited O2.

Virgin Media also claims that it's broadband is "fibre optic". This is not the case. Similar to BT running fibre to their local exchanges, they run fibre optic cable to their green boxes but the cable from there to the customer's house is copper. Fibre optic broadband is usually taken to mean fibre optic all the way to the home. It is not clear how Virgin's system is that different from BT's. Furthermore, Virgin use an analogue transmission system where as fibre optic broadband is always digital.

Fibre optic broadband is characterised by it's ability to provide a symmetrical connection, i.e. one where the download and upload speeds are the same and usually in the order of 100Mb or more. Virgin's fastest product only manages 50Mb download an 1.5Mb upload, so is neither symmetrical nor fast enough for the common definition of the technology.

[BenMcr]

And again as I pointed out in the other thread you created (rather than dredging this one up from a year ago)

Once the BB M upgrades complete all M/L and XL customers will be able to stream SD iPlayer without any issue at all

The BBC SD iPlayer streams are 1.5Mbit. 10Mbit STM drops the download to 2.5Mbit

[Gary L]

Watchdog won't be interested. there was a thread before about their 'Unlimited' campaign.
I contacted them to ask why they wouldn't include Virgin Media Cable on the list. they wasn't interested.

I don't do conspiracy theories

Thread

Campaign

[Turkey Machine]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

And again as I pointed out in the other thread you created (rather than dredging this one up from a year ago)

Once the BB M upgrades complete all M/L and XL customers will be able to stream SD iPlayer without any issue at all

The BBC SD iPlayer streams are 1.5Mbit. 10Mbit STM drops the download to 2.5Mbit

There is a problem because while they're 1.5Mbit, there's a lot of overhead with iPlayer, especially since they've migrated from WMV to Adobe's tripe. Also, what's to stop BBC increasing the bitrates of their online content in future, so SD is for instance 2Mbit, HD is 10Mbit.

[DABhand]

Technically it is 75%, with 20mb you will rarely ever get 2.5MB/s just over 2MB/s, so when you work that out with the 75% it is correct.

But your other points are true in your complain to the ASA, but unfortunately the ASA is for advertisements and not the products offered to customers, that then falls into the lap of the Trading Standards.

But, after telling them I gave them a 1 month notice, they phoned me up begging me to come back.

And got the usual lies of "every ISP throttles customers" and "ADSL will only give you a maxium 5mb/s".

I had 2 options..

Upgrade to 50mb, but pay the £80 fees, they wouldnt wave the £30 fee if I installed the modem and router and get the MAC address in their system by phoning them, and give me a -£67.50 to the bill which would have made it £12.50 (why they couldnt just remove some fees instead of this bill removal idea is beyond me).

or

Stay on 20mb (which I only really need) and have 3 months £41.60 and 9 months with near £5 taken off the bill, i.e. 1 year contract (and ill probably would have to phone up to keep the deal going) and then managed to get the 1st £41.60 bill free.

So I have given them 1 last chance, with an agreement to the year contract that if Traffic Management becomes too severe or if technical problems become persistant, then I can back out. There was no way I would have stayed another year with them with problems without a get out clause.

[BenMcr]

If the BBC did increase the HD stream to 10Mbit they would lock out most ADSL customers.

Even anything above 5Mbit will be pushing a lot of lines

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

And again as I pointed out in the other thread you created (rather than dredging this one up from a year ago)

Once the BB M upgrades complete all M/L and XL customers will be able to stream SD iPlayer without any issue at all

The BBC SD iPlayer streams are 1.5Mbit. 10Mbit STM drops the download to 2.5Mbit

But the HD streams are 3.5Mbit.

[BenMcr]

Yes they are - your point being?