1GB Cap Letter!!!!

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

We have plently of examples of flat rate pricing in the UK: postage - it costs me as much to send a letter to my neighbour as it does to the other end of the country; Council Tax - my wheelie bin is nearly almost only 1/2 full each week, my neigbours is usually overflowing, but we both pay the same effective contribution. I could go on.

The majority of users like flat rate pricing structures, as they know where they are with them, and don't have to worry about use. Even ntl in promoting their telephone services encourage the model as it will be cheaper for the customer who makes lots of calls. It's the whole idea of the concept.

For flat price models to work, it's up to the supplier, to price the service accordingly.

I agree, and this where ntl has created a rod for its own back I think. They have encouraged people to 'use more' and pay the same amount, not only with the internet, but now the phone calls too.

So people duly do as they are instructed, and use it more. Then ntl comes along as says 'you're using it too much' and surprise surprise people are angry at this.

If ntl want to limit people's online activity, then quite simply 'all you can eat' style pricing will not work. And it will only get worse, with more and more broadband enabled content out there (including their own Broadband Plus) even lighter users download rates are going to increase still further, putting greater loads on the network for everyone.

This whole discussion about people downloading more than 1gb has gone on for months and months now and after a lot of thought the only sensible and fair (to both ntl and customer) pricing method will be pay for what you use.

[blue jammer]

Can I just ask what might be deemed a stupid question..

If I drop the NTL internet (1MB STB connection) and go to an ADSL provider via a BT phone, can I still use NTL e-mail? even though I would no longer be an NTL internet customer?

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Guys! You think we have it bad on NTL! My mate live's in Belgium, has a 3.3MBit internet connection and has an imposed cap of 10GB a month!?!?!

I assume though that he can pay for additional traffic should he go over his allocated amount right?

Here's another question for someone that can answer it....

Would everyone having a larger bandwidth help here? What I mean is, if everyone had a 2mb connection, but at certain times of the day and evening you were only going to get the equivalent of say the 600k connection, would this make things better or worse in terms of network load?

[Frank]

Originally Posted by blue jammer

If I drop the NTL internet (1MB STB connection) and go to an ADSL provider via a BT phone, can I still use NTL e-mail? even though I would no longer be an NTL internet customer?

Can you actually use it now? To do this, you would have to convert your e-mail to a PAYG dial-up account.

[blue jammer]

Originally Posted by Keyser

Can you actually use it now? To do this, you would have to convert your e-mail to a PAYG dial-up account.

Heh, I can use it now, well 95% of the time anyhow!

PAYG dial-up? blimey, that sounds like a lot of mither to me.

Is there any way of having the mails re-directed from the server to a web-based account, or have my ntl e-mail accounts made into web based accounts?

(sorry to hijack this thead with these questions, but I'm very tempted to go over to http://www.cpbb.co.uk/ for an ADSL service)

[Florence]

Originally Posted by andygrif

I agree, and this where ntl has created a rod for its own back I think. They have encouraged people to 'use more' and pay the same amount, not only with the internet, but now the phone calls too.

So people duly do as they are instructed, and use it more. Then ntl comes along as says 'you're using it too much' and surprise surprise people are angry at this.

If ntl want to limit people's online activity, then quite simply 'all you can eat' style pricing will not work. And it will only get worse, with more and more broadband enabled content out there (including their own Broadband Plus) even lighter users download rates are going to increase still further, putting greater loads on the network for everyone.

This whole discussion about people downloading more than 1gb has gone on for months and months now and after a lot of thought the only sensible and fair (to both ntl and customer) pricing method will be pay for what you use.

This idea would make NTL greedier and take more out of the customers pockets to line the managers.

I feel it should be reviewed and the cap made more in line with the speed like I said above. then anything used over that charged at a set rate per gig like some satellite ISPs do.
The way you suggest making it vertually a PAYasUgo would make those who use little stay those who use approx the right gig and above to leave as they would never know what their bills would be. I certainly couldn't stay not knowing how much the next bill would be. This makes BT look 100% better prospect and another nail in NTLs coffin

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

Not uncommon, same sort of package from www.videotron.ca amongst others, France, Germany, Canada, etc all have higher bandwidth but lower transfer limit packages.

True, all of the basic broadband packages from Videotron include some quite stingy allowances - starting from only 1gb per month.

However their new 'Extreme High Speed' service makes a big deal from the fact that you get a 4mb line with absolutely no restrictions on downloads, and it'll only set you back 24 quid a month, plus 4 quid a month if you want to rent your modem rather than buy it.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by blue jammer

Heh, I can use it now, well 95% of the time anyhow!

PAYG dial-up? blimey, that sounds like a lot of mither to me.

Is there any way of having the mails re-directed from the server to a web-based account, or have my ntl e-mail accounts made into web based accounts?

(sorry to hijack this thead with these questions, but I'm very tempted to go over to http://www.cpbb.co.uk/ for an ADSL service)

The pay as you go option is nice and simple and would still be required either way as you must be an ntl internet customer to have an NTL email account. The pop3 mail will be downloadable from anywhere so forwarding is not a problem AFAIK.

The new account will only attract charges if you use it though so this is "free" way to maintain an NTL account and explains why that option was recomended in this situation.

[Ben]

If they put a decent limit on the amount you could download I really don't think there would be an issue. They could then limit your speed to say the 150K service if you go over that limit (or charge) but the limit would have to be a decent amount

Although this might not work for the 150k service in general they could just forget about a limit on 150k to be honest as its not the fastest service in the world and people who take that up I can't see are going to be major heavy downloaders anyway. (its more for browsing)

[Florence]

Wow just talked to customer services straight through after the automation to Steph. Nice lady was really helpfull and has said she will put forward in the staff forum about the customers feeling unhappy about the letters. I explained that the broadband plus now was of no benefit to their customers as it would take them over the cap all the time. I wil not be filling in my details to continue with this option.

Time for organised discussions and customer meets with mangers at the regions... any volunters to go in threes to each region and talk to the manager? In threes so they can't twist what is said afterwards safty in numbers..

[Sociable]

Getting back on topic there is one major problem with all the various options being discussed for alternate solutions to the problem.

NTL would have to come clean with the customers about there actually being limits.

This I think is the one and only reason the basic compromise we have been arguing for since day one, of only restricting peak-time use for file transfers, has not been adopted by NTL.

This would be the simplest one to both introduce and administer and more importantly not pi$$ of large numbers of users who would object to any form of "pay per gig" or bandwidth throttling at peak times.

I would suggest, that with the exception of the few diehard, "I signed up for unlimited and I'm dam well going to use it" users (who will object to any proposals anyway), the option of the AUP wording only applying to peak-time use would be the most acceptable option not just for NTL but also for the vast majority of its customers.

As I said the problem is not the method used but the simple truth ANY method being put in place requires NTL to be up-front about it. The compromise we originally proposed is IMHO the only one capable of being presented by NTL to the customer base as being a †œpositiveÃÂà ‚¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ƚÂÂ� move designed to make best use of the network whilst ensuring ALL customers are given the best quality of service at all times.

EDIT: Implimenting our option would also free up the possibility of allowing larger allowances for the different tiers as there would be no need to enforce such a low daily cap. I would suggest something along the lines of 1 gig for the 150k service, 3 gig for 600k and 5 gig for the 1 meg service, but the detail of that could be worked out by a discussion with users once the general principle is accepted.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Sociable

Getting back on topic there is one major problem with all the various options being discussed for alternate solutions to the problem.

NTL would have to come clean with the customers about there actually being limits.

Well I don't see there being a problem with that. Looking as we were at the Videotron set up in Montreal earlier, they have it all laid out nice and clearly as to what your limits are. If it is all laid out in black and white then there can be none of the ambiguity that exists with ntl today.

Maybe we can further complicate and combine some of the ideas - unlimted at certain times of the day (say 12 midnight to 7am) then your limits only apply to daytime and evening hours - if you exceed your daytime limits then you pay per mb/gb over your standard 'unlimited' rates.

[IanUK]

I think 5 gig for the 1mb service is a must and much more sensible, especially with the increase in file sizes going on currently (Game Demo's - On demand video - NTL's own 'Broadband Plus' - the BBC's P2P plans etc).

For Example:
I pay £34.99 for the 1mb broadband with the 1 gig limit.
I want to watch an old episode of Steptoe & Son for instance from the BBC's proposed free (license fee funded) P2P service - thats half an hour of video streaming so probably about 400-500 meg maybe more depending on compression - I then want to watch the BBC's news - say another 5 - 10 mins so about 100 meg.
I then want to use NTL's own 'Broadband Plus' to watch some pop videos - so another 1-200meg gone.

So far thats about an hour and a half of perfectly reasonable broadband usage and over half of my 'allowance' gone, I then have a quick web browse, and see an update for one of my games - its 200 meg - damn I can't get it today (or tomorrow probably, unless I don't watch the BBC) as I'm afraid I'll go over my limit.

Tiered caps are a must, its quite frankly astounding that the 150k and 1mb services have the same low cap.

Personally I think that to pay for extra gigs would be a pain and probably cause more problems than it would solve, just setting sensible download limits would make things run smoothly I think for 99% of customers.

Just my thoughts...

[Ben]

Originally Posted by IanUK

Personally I think that to pay for extra gigs would be a pain and probably cause more problems than it would solve

Can't disagree with that, Can you imagine the amount of problems the billing system would have

[Blake]

If they do *enforce* (as yet, it's only a letter asking to lower uasge) the 1gb/day cap for all tiers, then, has been said before, there OWN Broadband Plus will be a waste.

I signed up for the 3 month freebe, chances of me subscribing now .. zero

Broadband Britain ? .. no chance.

Every user has his/hers own usage patterns, and to say 30g a month is Enough, then thats ok for a single user, what about the ones with familes? they would use more.

I use online radio, from digitally imported and chillout at radiomax.nu (just two out of a few I listen to alot) , now some days, this can be left on playing to it's self in the background.. even if i'm not at the computer.. now some of the streams are 256kbit, most are 192kbps (I think thats about 12-20k sec), so just on the usage of the online radio... thats almost a gig a day, assuming it's not turned off.

I do not turn off my computer, just my speakers. The chances of me changing, after years on the net is nil.

They introduce packages, then say we can't use them.. but they still want to take our monies.