New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!

[bigsanta11]

Originally Posted by TraxData

You realise the whole point of having a faster connection is to download files faster, right? you know, to get the download over and done with so you can carry on with whatever your doing, right?

I know what the stars on their latest advert say,but Vm towers never thought customers would actually go ahead and do as their advert "stated" you could !



Right,the latest letter that i recieved today from Vm towers,about their new methods for enhancing the customers web experience(stm),has a part "But you can still download loads"(Vm towers bold)"massive amounts" ,Vm towers further states on the back of the page the massive amounts you are "allowed".

The part that stands out for me,and it isn't the massive amounts,but the fact that in the table displayed ,the amount is now clearly stating as fact limits have now been set in place ,but then further down the page they state once again that "you still have unlimited downloads",completely contradicting what Vm towers table above has shown and said.

This table also says how much you can download in a "24 hour period"(for gods sake,we can't use it through the day but instead they actually want us to now do it at some ungodly hour ) ,instead of having the table reflect when the vast majority of users use their BB service ,as in a 12 hour "daily" period,and thus this table would then show people what their 50 mb super fast ,unlimited ,uncapped isp was really able to provide us,their paying customers with.

Finally ,we are classed as one of those 1% of awful people that can bring the Vm towers network to a crawl ,one who dares to use their super fast unlimited BB connection for more than reading emails and checking the local help the aged events , even though our BB line is shared with the rest of our household ,Vm towers have nothing in place to distinguish between the two types of customer,instead their letter tells us to upgrade our BB package ,(£37 a month for 5mb seems a bit pricey,or is that just me) or change our behaviour ,the nerve of them !

Originally Posted by TraxData

The fact STM does not affect you, as you say, means you have nothing more to add to the debate either .

It's not your business what other people do with their connections, you cant complain because VM has sold it as unlimited and people are actually using it.

Again, the whole point of a high speed connection is so you can download files faster, not start the download, have a 20mbit speed burst for 20 mins then down to 5mbit taking twice as long to get the file downloaded.

All because your happy to sit here and be ripped off it does not mean others are.

You seem to think anyone who downloads is an abuser? what about households with more than 1 pc? people who have kids? i can easily use that STM limit up within an hour with iplayer/youtube/game/updates/patches.

You think its fair to class them as abusers because they sometimes have to download large files?

You do realise STM is NOT in place to stop heavy downloaders, right?

It's there so they can keep on signing more people up while not having to give the customers what they are actually paying for.

I think you need to remember normal people have lifes, jobs and other things to do...and are only online for a few hours today, if they want to download something in those few hours at the speed they are paying for ,they should be allowed.

While I don't deny some of those points, the fact is most are surmountable with strategy, if you want to 'dumb down' use of the internet, then fair do - your 'normal people' may have some issues - but I don't think you really expect 'most' people are as dumb as you think & you are just trying to pursue an agenda.

Not a problem, in itself, but don't underestimate the casual user - there is no reason why they cannot be educated to get the most from their connection - and queuing downloads outside of STM time slots is part of that, imo

/ queues download, sets pc to shut down when complete, goes to bed ...

Originally Posted by homealone

While I don't deny some of those points, the fact is most are surmountable with strategy, if you want to 'dumb down' use of the internet, then fair do - your 'normal people' may have some issues - but I don't think you really expect 'most' people are as dumb as you think & you are just trying to pursue an agenda.

Not a problem, in itself, but don't underestimate the casual user - there is no reason why they cannot be educated to get the most from their connection - and queuing downloads outside of STM time slots is part of that, imo

It's not a matter of educating them, it's a matter of why should they have to?

They are paying for a high speed connection, they should be allowed to use it when they need it, not when they are in bed.

What use is it when your asleep? you cant game/play demos/watch iplayer while your asleep can you? are you superhuman?

So basically your saying customers should pay £37 for that high speed connection so they can use it when they are in bed, you should work for VM, you'd make a great manager, neil has the same views, sell them something, just dont let them use it.

[bigsanta11]

Originally Posted by GraphiX2004

pippincp some people would defend and be happy if virgin burst through their doors.
ripped out the cable modem took it with them and slapped them with a removal bill.
then forced to sign a new contract saying they must never use virgin again ever.
but you still need to pay us 37 pounds a month every months for 24 months.

they'd take a good look at it say hmm, not bad price i can put up with that.
that's the whole impression i get of people here, who's actually paying customers.

That IS the exact type of person that defends the bbc/capita tv tax methods ,particularly the tv tax threatening letters and the bbc/capitas enforcement officers methods over on the digitalspy forums.

Only too happy to hand over their money and even say thank you for the further kick in the knackers.

[pip08456]

@ frogstamper. Point taken

---------- Post added at 02:40 ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 ----------

Originally Posted by bigsanta11

That IS the exact type of person that defends the bbc/capita tv tax methods ,particularly the tv tax threatening letters and the bbc/capitas enforcement officers methods over on the digitalspy forums.

Only too happy to hand over their money and even say thank you for the further kick in the knackers.

Just to clarify, GraphiX wasn't referring to me but to a comment I'd made in reply to a previous one. In fact I emailed VM threatening to leave and have had £9.00 knocked off my monthly bill.
They've told me it will improve in a month(is that the 50 Mbps rollout?) but I've told them if it doesn't I'm still off! I'd still pay less with BE and BT line rental!

[bigsanta11]

---------- Post added at 02:49 ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 ----------

Originally Posted by pippincp

@ frogstamper. Point taken

---------- Post added at 02:40 ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 ----------



Just to clarify, GraphiX wasn't referring to me but to a comment I'd made in reply to a previous one.

Yeah,i understood GraphiX's comment

[pip08456]

If VM stick to what they have "intimated" on the 50 Mbps rollout, ie STM will be relaxed as pressure will be off the system, I will consider staying with them - especially with my £9.00 pm discount for min 12 months
But I will still be off to BE if it doesn't pan out as I've had so many good reports about them.

IMHO ALL premium users should threaten to leave, get the discount and then VM might actually listen!

[LostintheNW]

VM are not bothered about losing customers over this, less customers more network resources (should have sodding upgraded the network in the first place - although C&W did spout that Manchester for one had one of the best cable networks...liars!) - I have had many a discussion about this and been told that it is still an unlimited service as i can still download unlimited amounts of data, they will not accept that it is a limited service and still claim they can sell it as an unlimited BB service.

Whats going to happen when VM decide to go with streaming TV, are we going to be limited on the amount of TV we can watch?!?!?!

The STM system is a complete joke and is doing nothing but to push customers off the network and elsewhere - IMO I can't wait to see this shower of *****e go bust

[CrowmanUK]

Mr Homealone we've obviously got different opinions on what you're supposed to get from VM, which is great, different opinions open up different arguments so its nice to see everyone isnt a VM hater on here, I dunno what you meant about illegal modems, I certainly didnt mention or know anything about them, when I spoke about mr car booter i was referring to the kind of user who downloads stuff all day long, not somebody with dodgy hardware.
VM say on their website that traffic managing only affects 5% of their user base on a daily basis, I cant argue with that as I dont know the figures but I'd argue that it could affect anybody, not just the high downloaders, as I said before, a patch here, bit of streaming TV and you're into traffic management grounds, I dont think theyre using the right method to prop the network up, if they actually traffic managed the top 5% of downloaders instead of putting a bandwidth usage up that could restrict people who arent heavy users then that might be lot better, check the adsl policy, maybe thats more like what they should be looking at for broadband, obviously not with an 8k/sec limit though.
I've said it before and i'll say it again, its all about convenience, if i've paid for a connection so I can make fast downloads when I want and watch streaming tv when I want then that IS what I want!
VM at the moment seems like the dutch boy and the dam constantly looking for timezones to plug so the network doesnt fall over.

p.s I was with Blueyonder for 5 years (cheer), vm adsl for 6 weeks (booo) now i'm with BE and all is hunky dory for now.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by homealone

While I don't deny some of those points, the fact is most are surmountable with strategy, if you want to 'dumb down' use of the internet, then fair do - your 'normal people' may have some issues - but I don't think you really expect 'most' people are as dumb as you think & you are just trying to pursue an agenda.

Not a problem, in itself, but don't underestimate the casual user - there is no reason why they cannot be educated to get the most from their connection - and queuing downloads outside of STM time slots is part of that, imo

/ queues download, sets pc to shut down when complete, goes to bed ...

While I agree with the nay-sayers that having to wait until 9pm to start my 4Mb/s downloads is an inconvenience, I'll have downloaded over 150GB this month without being STM'd once.

If you feel that VM are ripping you off, then write and complain; downgrade your connection; demand a discount; or dump your cable connection and switch to ADSL. There's at least a chance that letting VirginMedia know that you are unhappy might persuade them to change their policy.

But adding another, increasingly hysterical, claim of how STM will endanger the planet on CableForum will get you nowhere. And criticizing helpful and knowledgeable people like homealone is out of order. Please stop it.

[SydneyHopper]

The only possible positive to come out of this whole debacle is a clearly defined area of heavy usage that can go unpunished- after nine o’clock? You can appoint that free-for-all-time for all the indulgent downloading you want, and the rest of the time for surfing and surely, online gaming.

It is not ideal and does sound restrictive, but with a slight tweak to normal operational usage, no one will be punished(till the find someway to throttle overnight downloaders)

I guess the ire gets stoked because Virgin have incorporated a punitive angle to their service of late. I got disconnected from the internet and television because I slightly exceeded my monthly credit. A credit limit that they arbitrarily impose.

And this arbitrariness is again in force with what they consider heavy usage and this is no light calculation, this takes into consideration lifestyle choices, normal usage parameters and an internet paradigm of some twenty years

Which is hopelessly out of date.

Really, they should be thinking about how they can exploit the top users and get them to pay for premium channels that offer huge downloading opportunities, not punish them. They are a customer base, an untapped fiscal resource. What Virgin are lacking is the intelligence to corral them into an exploitative situation where their unique use identity can be used

This daytime management is supposed to have kicked in already - yes?
Does this apply to everyone? I presume it does.
I'm just hitting 3Gb down so far today - no STM has kicked in here yet.
I was trying to find out what level of STM the existing 4Mb users are getting - the new "L" mangement or the old "L" management.. Seems to be the old one. None through the day and 800Mb between 4pm & 9pm - sure there's a good few of us still on 4Mb that would find that info handy.

[ceedee]

Karl Rio in the VM TS newsgroup suggests that "If it's on our customer facing website...I'm guessing it's live now" even though you can't navigate to the new page from www.virginmedia.com.

I've requested twice that he check to find out when it does go live but he seems reluctant to pass the query up the line.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ceedee

While I agree with the nay-sayers that having to wait until 9pm to start my 4Mb/s downloads is an inconvenience, I'll have downloaded over 150GB this month without being STM'd once.

If you feel that VM are ripping you off, then write and complain; downgrade your connection; demand a discount; or dump your cable connection and switch to ADSL. There's at least a chance that letting VirginMedia know that you are unhappy might persuade them to change their policy.

But adding another, increasingly hysterical, claim of how STM will endanger the planet on CableForum will get you nowhere. And criticizing helpful and knowledgeable people like homealone is out of order. Please stop it.

I probably would not be bothered IF STM started at 9.00pm as I'm usually not far off going to bed (6.00am - 6.00pm shifts) BUT I'm in the Manchester area where STM is between 4.00pm (before I finish work!) and 12.00 am (when I'm in bed!). OK I may "ONLY" work 4 days a week but work 48 hrs pw. My employer expects and pays for those 48 hours. How would he react if I said I was only working 40 of those because he was working me too hard???

ATM the STM restricts me at EXACTLY the hours I am available to use the service when I finish work. Don't forget I'm in "yet another Trial Area" which means 750MB download within the hours of 4.00pm and 12.00am.

I am an XL subscriber and paying a premium for it. I could go on but I won't, at least I got a tech support guy to admit that VM are lying b******s

Originally Posted by ceedee

Karl Rio in the VM TS newsgroup suggests that "If it's on our customer facing website...I'm guessing it's live now" even though you can't navigate to the new page from www.virginmedia.com.

I've requested twice that he check to find out when it does go live but he seems reluctant to pass the query up the line.

Yeah, saw that ceedee.
I'm also having difficulty, but with getting info on the STM scales for those not yet upgraded to 10Mb from 4Mb.
Though Alex Brown says:

"Significant increase in thresholds (on the evening download window)
for M and L (10Mb, althought there are also increases for those
customers still on 4Mb and yet to be uplifted) broadband tiers before
a customer can get traffic managed - by over 50% to 500MB and 1200MB
respectively."

it appears either he doesn't know or he's not told anyone else exactly what these increases are because so far, two techs have failed to give me an answer.
As I say, so far, no increases or daily STM for me, so I'm taking advantage of that while it lasts. Particularly handy for me today as I need to grab some large media from work for over the weekend and was dreading the management kicking in.