Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

The biggest trouble with the NHS. Is that there is NOT enough being umped into it. And the Tories hate spending the Money into it, as they are not getting anything from it.

I was reading recently where, patients are being sent miles from home for treatment as there are no beds. In the region where they live.

We have elderly being kept in hospital as there is a shortage of care in the home. There fore they are taking up beds. Which can be used for Urgent care patients.

My neighbour has been moved SIX times to separate wards. As they needed the bed in the acute care dept. where he is. And he has been there one week tomorrow. And he cannot come home. As he has gone yellow. And been told that he has cancer. Lymphoma - I think that's what they call it. A large lump on his neck

Jeremy Hunt isn't a Dr. So is going on info from NHS England.

What the Government has to do is sit round a table and sort this mess out.

I strongly believe that Drs and Nurses should get the high wage deserve. And you cannot have SEVEN DAY service, unless you pay for it. If you were working Five days, and they wanted yu to work extra hours for nothing. Would you do it. I wouldn't do it.

How about we cut out some of the ridiculous management levels there are (especially at the PCT side of things)

How about we make sure that the IT projects are delivered on time and on budget ?

Do you know what Dr's earn Arthur?

Originally Posted by martyh

I always saw a 7 day NHS more of a load spreading exercise ,for example,if a hospital treats 100,000 in/out patients over 5 days surely it's better to treat the same 100,000 patients over 7 days ,less work load on the doctors and nurses.There will naturally have to be more doctors and nurses but the NHS is having a big recruitment drive anyway due to staff shortages .The main reason for a 7 day NHS is for out patients really imo

Thinking about it that does make a bit more sense. Patients aren't going to scale to the amount of appointments available. Although I guess they might do if accessibility increases, people who can't be bothered to get something looked at because they can't get the time off work might be more inclined to do so.

The problem with deciding who is right here is that it's just claim after counter-claim. I trust the doctors more than I trust the government and it irks me how Jeremy Hunt wears that poxy NHS badge when he is making public appearances but the fact the BMA accepted an agreement before it's members rejected it has eroded my trust in them as well.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Increasing it to 7 without putting any extra cash in isn't credible either, if we want a 7 day nhs we should be prepared to pay for it but considering iirc 10% of doctor vacancies haven't been filled I wouldn't hold your breath.

hence why I said more money needs to go in the pot.

A way I would support wage increases is that staff can be offered an increase, but in return they agree to only work for the NHS, so their work time is exclusive to the NHS and as such no conflict of interest in doing lucrative out of hours private work.

Give and take.

Originally Posted by Damien

Thinking about it that does make a bit more sense. Patients aren't going to scale to the amount of appointments available. Although I guess they might do if accessibility increases, people who can't be bothered to get something looked at because they can't get the time off work might be more inclined to do so.

The problem with deciding who is right here is that it's just claim after counter-claim. I trust the doctors more than I trust the government and it irks me how Jeremy Hunt wears that poxy NHS badge when he is making public appearances but the fact the BMA accepted an agreement before it's members rejected it has eroded my trust in them as well.

I would say that is very likely but it would also means that illnesses would be identified earlier rather than when someone is absolutely desperate and being an in patient rather than a more preferable out patient.The same would apply to GP surgeries ,better accessibility at the weekends would most likely mean people attending who would normally just put up with their symptoms because they cannot get time away from work again meaning the illness is caught earlier ,i would fall into that bracket ,my arthritis was developing over a few years but i didn't go to the doctors to get treatment or a diagnosis because i felt losing money from work took priority, instead when it was absolutely unbearable i ended up in A&E and the treatment regime was much more aggressive and therefore more costly and risky to me personally

[yorkshireborn]

wot get my goat is the bleating on about why the docs are striking

its not about the funding of the NHS its not about the number of doctors its not about the welfare of patients

its about getting paid more for working weekends.
that's it

and when this is done the nurses will start want their cut.

Originally Posted by yorkshireborn

wot get my goat is the bleating on about why the docs are striking

its not about the funding of the NHS its not about the number of doctors its not about the welfare of patients

its about getting paid more for working weekends.
that's it

and when this is done the nurses will start want their cut.

Which they are

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by martyh

Which they are

I take it you're referring to the new contract.

They're being offered not only a 10-11% overall increase regardless of which day that involves. Plus if they work more than a certain number of weekends they get a bonus of the total of their annual salary, ie not just the weekend hours. 13 or more weekends gets 10% bonus, ranging down to 3% for 7 weekends. Sounds pretty good. Remember this is not the normal annual pay rise/negotiations, this is in addition to that.

Originally Posted by nomadking

I take it you're referring to the new contract.

They're being offered not only a 10-11% overall increase regardless of which day that involves. Plus if they work more than a certain number of weekends they get a bonus of the total of their annual salary, ie not just the weekend hours. 13 or more weekends gets 10% bonus, ranging down to 3% for 7 weekends. Sounds pretty good. Remember this is not the normal annual pay rise/negotiations, this is in addition to that.

Yep ,now we wait for someone to come along and tell us that is wrong because they don't like the government and they don't like Hunt and the doctors are special

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Yep ,now we wait for someone to come along and tell us that is wrong because they don't like the government and they don't like Hunt and the doctors are special

You forgot the

Originally Posted by yorkshireborn

and when this is done the nurses will start want their cut.

coincidentally ,the mother of Dr Ellen McCourt (the woman who's got the doctors all fired up) tried to get the nurses out on strike when she was head of the nurses union and basically got told by the nurses to do one .

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by martyh

coincidentally ,the mother of Dr Ellen McCourt (the woman who's got the doctors all fired up) tried to get the nurses out on strike when she was head of the nurses union and basically got told by the nurses to do one .

So a noted rabble rouser?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37463929

Junior doctors in England have suspended a series of five-day strikes over the next three months, following concerns over patient safety.

Walkouts in October, November and December, in protest against a new contract, had been planned.

[Osem]

Hmmm..

They've been telling us all along that they're the experts on what's going on in the NHS and assuring us their intended strike action wouldn't be putting lives at risk. Now suddenly they're presenting this welcome change of heart as though it's been brought about by some new set of circumstances previously unknown.

Frankly I'd have a lot more respect for them if they just admitted they got it wrong, now accept that their strike plans would have put patient lives at risk so have abandoned that course of action for good. There's no real sin in accepting an error of judgement and proving, for any doubters, that they do put patient lives at the top of their list of priorities.

Originally Posted by Osem

Hmmm..

They've been telling us all along that they're the experts on what's going on in the NHS and assuring us their intended strike action wouldn't be putting lives at risk. Now suddenly they're presenting this welcome change of heart as though it's been brought about by some new set of circumstances previously unknown.

Frankly I'd have a lot more respect for them if they just admitted they got it wrong, now accept that their strike plans would have put patient lives at risk so have abandoned that course of action for good. There's no real sin in accepting an error of judgement and proving, for any doubters, that they do put patient lives at the top of their list of priorities.

It stinks to me .I'll bet that the doctors themselves have told the chief instigator of all of this(Dr Ellen McCourt) that enough is enough ,we got what we wanted and more .I'm even prepared to bet in the next few weeks there is an announcement from the BMA that the doctors are prepared to accept the new contract

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

It stinks to me .I'll bet that the doctors themselves have told the chief instigator of all of this(Dr Ellen McCourt) that enough is enough ,we got what we wanted and more .I'm even prepared to bet in the next few weeks there is an announcement from the BMA that the doctors are prepared to accept the new contract

Wasn't it the doctors themselves that rejected the deal the bma accepted