Students Rioting in London.

Originally Posted by G UK

This is how I went about it. Full Time work, Day Release to Uni for 8-10 hours of lectures and expected to do all assignments, coursework and dissertations in my own time. This took five years. Meanwhile I was earning a decent wage and bought my own house.

Result = Good job at the end with zero student debts along with several years experience over the grad scheme starters.

Whilst at Uni I had to listen to the complaints of Full Time students about having 3-4 hours of lectures and how they needed more time for coursework etc etc. which always annoyed the hell out of me.

To this day I see how ill prepared many students start work and how so many of them start work thinking they know everything, many students have almost no clue about the real world or its demands although a handful come through who redeem my opinion of them to some degree.

This was all done gaining one of the more difficult degrees, Mechanical Engineering.

Well done - that can't have been easy - but having no student debt, a decent job, plus your foot on the housing 'ladder' is fantastic.

I have to admit I didn't embrace my opportunity with quite the same success, but ultimately that isn't relevant to my point - in fact my son is probably a better example - he didn't go to Uni, but recently graduated with a foundation degree he achieved while in full time employment. He is now working through the modules to gain a full honours degree, lives in his own house & doesn't have a student loan.

- In my opinion vocational training is the way forward, the 'traditional' route through higher education is not cost effective at the point of delivery, any more.

I would like to see much more support from employers for staff who are willing to train - and more help from the government for those employers offering that support?

[Chrysalis]

I agree with ignition on the point that further education is optional and as such it could be considered unfair that the state pays for it all. However I also think its a valid question as to how the country was able to afford it before the 90s and cannot now. What has changed?

I expect one answer is new labour's drive to get more students with all these lower level degree's escalated the cost.

FYI, there were approx 280,000 students attending 47 Universities in 1980 - now there are approx 1,960,000 students attending about 115 Uni's (but still below the OECD average percentage, and less than the USA and Oz)

[punky]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

More like 12 years before you break and that's without taking the interest into account of course...

In practice then depending on your wage and if you pay it off at the minimum stipulated rate, maybe. But with interest rates that have varied between 1-3%, why would anyone pay it off early? If someone inherited £10k after leaving Uni would they really pay the student loan off in one go? Or put it in a deposit account, earn some interest and then pay any student loan off any future wages? I'd guess if they did decide to pay off their student, it'sa wonder they got a degree in the first place.

I've never though of my student loan as debt. If I don't have it, they don't ask for it. It's not like I have to decide wether to eat or pay the student loan. Some people drop out, never pay a penny back and it is written off after X years.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

FYI, there were approx 280,000 students attending 47 Universities in 1980 - now there are approx 1,960,000 students attending about 115 Uni's (but still below the OECD average percentage, and less than the USA and Oz)

Presumably, the 47 does not include Polytechnics?

Correct, as at the time, they were not Universities, and provided most non-degree vocational awards (further education, rather than higher education).

Even though, the numbers were much smaller in those as well - in 1980, our local (as was) Poly had about 4-5k people attending; it now has 30k, and I believe this growth is reflected in other post-92 Universities.

[Ignitionnet]

You have to admit Hugh though that the difference within the work force from all these extra graduates is very easy to see.

In fact on Monday I'll discuss it with the various members of our team who were hired from abroad after, despite extensive searching, we failed to find anyone local with the skills to do the jobs.

I have mixed feelings, which is why I was reporting numbers, rather than outcomes....

The upside of the expansion is that it gave more opportunity for those who previously would not have had the (economic or social) opportunity to experience Higher Education (pre 80's, most, with a few notable exceptions, Uni students were middle/upper class) - downside is some of the courses, and the ever-rising costs.

Do you know this *******?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...lbank_Violence

If so, do the right thing.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Do you know this *******?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...lbank_Violence

If so, do the right thing.

Do you mean letting the proper authorities deal with it?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by danielf

Do you mean letting the proper authorities deal with it?

Either that or forcibly give him a wash and haircut.

If he has any sense (doubtful) he'll be looking at changing his appearance and going for a long holiday abroad for a good few months.

That said I'm sure there are plenty of defence lawyers lining up already to claim the extinguisher slipped out his hands and he was only up there to ensure nothing bad happened and really he's an angel who hasn't done anything wrong ever.

Originally Posted by Derek

Either that or forcibly give him a wash and haircut.

If he has any sense (doubtful) he'll be looking at changing his appearance and going for a long holiday abroad for a good few months.

That said I'm sure there are plenty of defence lawyers lining up already to claim the extinguisher slipped out his hands and he was only up there to ensure nothing bad happened and really he's an angel who hasn't done anything wrong ever.

so he was only making sure the roof didn't catch fire after all ,that explains it then ,i mean there were all those nutters about

Originally Posted by danielf

Do you mean letting the proper authorities deal with it?

Of course, they need to know who he is

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Do you know this *******?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...lbank_Violence

If so, do the right thing.

someone did the cops have arrested him ,sky link

Originally Posted by martyh

someone did the cops have arrested him ,sky link

[monty burns] excellent [/monty burns]