VERY VERY worrying

[Steve H]

Originally posted by Russ D
Snip

Yeah, Your post makes sense.. But that goes against Christian Beliefs....

Originally posted by Russ D
Humans are slaves to this process, NOT the other way around.

How can we be slaves, when We have freedom?.. Im actually a christian, But I prefer to take a broader view on life.

[paulyoung666]

Originally posted by Russ D
I'll use my pre-christian beliefs here to help with my point.....

In the view of a non-christian, life must have been created by a 'mother-nature'. 'She' continues to oversee life, and if you subscribe to the idea of 'evolution' then surely you must agree that she controls that, thus ensuring species evolve the right way. 'She' has laid down strict rules governing life, such as elephants only give birth to baby elephants, and canines give birth to puppies etc.

So anything which 'changes' this natural process is going to be encroaching in uncharted land. This can only be described as foolish behaviour IMO.

Humans are slaves to this process, NOT the other way around.

and if that is your belief then fine , i am not going to get into an argument about it , i still say it is upto the individual to choose as they see fit , although i reckon the line should be drawn at creating super beings , if i had the need to create a baby in the hope of saving another child then i would do it , no probs , i suppose it depends on your beliefs after all

[Russ]

Erm, I did say that those were my pre Christian beliefs ie this is what I believed before I became a Christian

[paulyoung666]

whoops for russ i reckon :p :p :p

[Steve H]

Originally posted by paulyoung666
and if that is your belief then fine , i am not going to get into an argument about it , i still say it is upto the individual to choose as they see fit , although i reckon the line should be drawn at creating super beings , if i had the need to create a baby in the hope of saving another child then i would do it , no probs , i suppose it depends on your beliefs after all

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Your idea of Super Beings Could strike something different into the subject though - We defiently need Strict laws with this.. Though I fear things like this have been going on for a long time now, Area 51 such an example.

Originally posted by Russ D
Erm, I did say that those were my pre Christian beliefs ie this is what I believed before I became a Christian

I know, but I couldnt think of anything else to say

[nogger]

Originally posted by Russ D
Well seeing as the Bible states God is the creator of all things,

But God didn't create modern cows, sheep, horses, roses, wheat and lots of other stuff. We did.

The "traditional" British landscape is largely man-made and not natural at all. We've been messing with nature for a few thousand years.

Not saying we always do a good job. Just that we've been doing it for a long time.

[nogger]

Originally posted by Russ D
'She' continues to oversee life, and if you subscribe to the idea of 'evolution' then surely you must agree that she controls that, thus ensuring species evolve the right way. 'She' has laid down strict rules governing life, such as elephants only give birth to baby elephants, and canines give birth to puppies etc.

So anything which 'changes' this natural process is going to be encroaching in uncharted land. This can only be described as foolish behaviour IMO.

Humans are slaves to this process, NOT the other way around.

See my previous reply.

Anyway, the only thing we can affect is us. There are LOTS of us - most of whom follow natural childbirth techniques (and most of whom will continue to do so for a very long time).

Also, variety within species is what powers evolution, not the sex of the individual. Unless I misunderstand my Darwin. (Which is always possible.)

And, just to scare you all a bit, we're probably a failed evolutionary line anyway, much like the horse - a little twig on the big tree of life. Lack of diversity, you see.

Bacteria rule. And always have.

[Xaccers]

Originally posted by Russ D
If you don't believe in God then surely you can appreciate the dangers of interefering with "Mother Nature". Who on earth are we to mess with a power MUCH great than us, and which we could never understand?

What if you don't believe in mother nature?

People already do various things to try and dictate the gender of their child, whether it be starving themselves to get a girl, or over eating for a boy, or doing it doggy style facing towards or away from the sun.

And there are many medical reasons for chosing the gender of your offspring.
Many genetic illnesses are gender specific.

while genetics & the associated research has a bearing on this case, as do religious beliefs and concerns about genderism in 3rd world countries - I think we are missing the point.

In my opinion the debate is about ethical issues - scientific research into IVF treatments and the treatments themselves, involve the "creation" of human embryo's. Many embryo's "die" during subsequent procedures.

Many partners have had children using these techniques, who otherwise would not have been able to have any - currently acceptable in the uk.

Using these techniques to add a gender specific child to an existing family is not acceptable in the uk, but can be done abroad.

Whatever the "meaning of life" I don't think we should get too blasÃÃâ€*’© about "creating" life to suit our whims. Where do we draw the line?

[Steve H]

Originally posted by homealone
Whatever the "meaning of life" I don't think we should get too blasÃÃâ€*’© about "creating" life to suit our whims. Where do we draw the line?

I think the line should be drawn where you alter a variable thats dictated by your upbringing.

IE - Inteligence..Strength.. (Thats where these freaky movies come in play, with superbeings)..

[nogger]

Originally posted by homealone
In my opinion the debate is about ethical issues - scientific research into IVF treatments and the treatments themselves, involve the "creation" of human embryo's. Many embryo's "die" during subsequent procedures.

But are they "alive" to start with?

Ok. My view. They're potential lives. IMO, until you can ***** it with a pin and make it squeal it's not "alive" (this applies to humans only, BTW). {I see we still have the silly censor in action. You'll have to work out for yourselves what one usually does with a pin. I'm sure you can all do that without genetic modification.}

Whatever the "meaning of life" I don't think we should get too blasÃÃâ€*’© about "creating" life to suit our whims. Where do we draw the line?

But don't we do this already? People choose to have children. Ok, not all, but a lot of couples plan their families, having babies when they want to have them as suits their lives. So what's the difference?

Or do you mean "creating" as in specifying characteristics? Even this I don't have too much of a problem with.

All ethical arguements about us doiing this start from the premise that, in some way, there's a "plan" or we're "special". There isn't and we aren't. So where's the problem?

Will genetic modification of humans destroy the world or the universe? I don't think so. We have better methods of doing the former and are incapable of doing the latter.

Will it give us a better chance of survival as a species? Yes. I think it will.

[cjll3]

Originally posted by Russ D
So anything which 'changes' this natural process is going to be encroaching in uncharted land. This can only be described as foolish behaviour IMO.

Humans are slaves to this process, NOT the other way around.

Well if the logical conclusion of genetic engineering means we all kill ourselves then so what?

Man as a species has developed to a point where the Earth is not capable of supporting them.

[Xaccers]

Can we stop going on about genetic engineering as it has nothing to do with this case.
All that happened was that the mother was given a say in the selection process of the embryos.
How do you know that all the embryos they developed, including those that weren't used, weren't all XX anyway?

originally posted by nogger <snip>Will it give us a better chance of survival as a species? Yes. I think it will.

imho no. sorry nogger I would prefer natural selection to be the determinant here - imo not being able to have children is "natures" way of saying you can't have children.

My bad, but I don't think we should mess with that?

Gaz

[tabatha]

quote from Russ...'She' has laid down strict rules governing life, such as elephants only give birth to baby elephants, and canines give birth to puppies etc...

Am I missing something from the report of this happening??
I was of the impression that the Lady in question was to give birth to a baby girl..as in humans only give birth to humans..I respect the religious beliefs of everyone,will never argue about them,and am happy to live with what I believe is ok..