UDP not working, NTL tech support lies.

[Ehm]

I don't run a firewall (I just hide behind the NAT my router provides), I've tried going directly from the modem to all of my networked PCs directly, using ethernet and USB, and I've restarted my modem more times than I care to remember... I'm 100% certain it's not my computers or router that's the issue here, it's either the modem or NTL's connection.

Also, most DNS implementations only fall back to TCP when the data payload is >512KiB.

I have no idea why UDP is blocked... it just is. I've tried sending UDP packets to several people who've tried to help me on IRC, and I've run ethereal and tried to capture UDP packets that they've sent me, and none of us recieved any packets. It's just strange.

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

they aren't NTL associates though - are they? they're staff from a dodgy Indian company sub contracted from NTL. and their responses clearly are crap.

While they are on the end of an NTL line, as far as I'm concerned they are employed by NTL, however indirectly. My point is, that whoever employs them, is clearly failing to provide proper training & communication - calling the front line staff 'idiots' does not address that problem. I'm not defending the 'service' being provided, just suggesting that the person you first contact on the phone is not the root cause of the problems with that service.

[MFKR78]

I've been there in the call centre locally. The level of training and help from people above when a customer has a problem you don't know how to fix is nothing short of astonishing. And obviously I don't mean in a good way.

[Chrysalis]

not sure what ntl expect of their TS staff but not knowing what UDP is pretty hillarious.

I thought the first part of the reason was quite 'funny' ;

As I'm sure you're aware, UDP packets try to find the fastest route through the network ..

So what do TCP packets do then ? find the slowest ? The're both IP packets .......

[handyman]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I think NTL should be kicking IBM's backside - they run the call centres dont they?

Makes me sick it really does. One of my goals if I ever get any money is to set up a outsourced technical support call centre. Advertise proper money to draw in intelligent people and train them well. (Anyone working at ntl will know there are some proper numptys that work there)

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul M

I thought the first part of the reason was quite 'funny' ;

This tickled me ...

and at peak times there were loads of UDP packets floating around

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by handyman

Makes me sick it really does. One of my goals if I ever get any money is to set up a outsourced technical support call centre. Advertise proper money to draw in intelligent people and train them well. (Anyone working at ntl will know there are some proper numptys that work there)

within the UK I hope.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Paul M

I thought the first part of the reason was quite 'funny' ;

So what do TCP packets do then ? find the slowest ? The're both IP packets .......

Actually, if I remember my Cisco training, exactly what route IP packets take through the network can be governed by many things (speed and cost being two). However, you are right, It doesn't matter whether a packet is TCP or UDP, it still follows the same routing rules.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

It's also worth noting that most of the streams from NTL's Broadband Plus package may not work properly without UDP.

[handyman]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

within the UK I hope.

Of course:

Outside of London and in an area with little call centres already if there is such a thing. Garland have plundred 1000 jobs etc in M'bro and the other callcentres meaning that there is very little else to chose from when hiring.

I very much doubt that anyone with a CV would get turned down by Garlands, When I went to the openday (everyday is an openday) there where people wandering in with their shopping and in t-shirts to apply

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by homealone

While they are on the end of an NTL line, as far as I'm concerned they are employed by NTL, however indirectly. My point is, that whoever employs them, is clearly failing to provide proper training & communication - calling the front line staff 'idiots' does not address that problem. I'm not defending the 'service' being provided, just suggesting that the person you first contact on the phone is not the root cause of the problems with that service.

Actually, I agree. It's not fair to blame the person on the front line, without knowing how they have been trained. After all, most people online wouldn't know a TCP/IP or UDP packet if it came an slapped them in the face. They certainly wouldn't know the difference.

I realise that the service is outsourced, so NTL has no direct control. However, as joe soap probably won't know he is actually dealing with IBM, and not NTL, it is NTL who look bad when things like this happen, so I would have thought it to be in NTL's interest to ensure minimum levels of knowledge for all customer-facing staff, and also to test the centres regularly.

For instance, one company I worked for was rumoured to emply fake customers to come in to a shop I worked in to buy things, complain etc, to see how staff reacted. NTL could employ fake customers to phone up these call centres.

[etccarmageddon]

instead they employ fake technical staff judging by their knowledge levels!

[Ehm]

Yay! Rang tech support again and got someone who knew what they were talking about (English too... any correlation there?)

Once again the modem was restarted umpteen times, and we swapped what was connected, router, more restarts, PC, more restarts, another PC, more restarts and it just started working again :s


Back on the router and all seems to be working fine again now... I just hope it stays like this.

Odd problem, eh? :s

[SnoopZ]

Glad you got it sorted.

[Chicken]

We analysed the network usage and found that UDP was taking a significant about of bandwidth and at peak times there were loads of UDP packets floating around. With the new upgrades to users' packages, we're now slightly shorter on bandwidth..

I thought UDP required LESS bandwidth as there's no ACK return...?

[James Henry]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Actually, if I remember my Cisco training, exactly what route IP packets take through the network can be governed by many things (speed and cost being two). However, you are right, It doesn't matter whether a packet is TCP or UDP, it still follows the same routing rules.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

It's also worth noting that most of the streams from NTL's Broadband Plus package may not work properly without UDP.

It all depends really on what the score is with them. With the advent of traffic shaping you can set TOS bits on the traffic and use it with an MPLS / diffserv aware network to cause different routing behaviours depending on the type of traffic.

In ntl's core traffic uses IS-IS and MPLS LSPs for routing traffic. IS-IS on th e ntl core runs solely based on metrics assigned to interfaces and LSPs appear to be set statically. It is possible to set TOS bits / use diffserv to send traffic down different LSPs.

That said I very very much doubt that ntl are doing this The tech support guy is, of course, making this up.