Pikeys - Human Rights - What about us?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I asked you earlier - Is it only Gypsy's who camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmacing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites?

Indeed it is. They are the ones that are doing this. The real Gypsy's dont do it. I am not and would never call real Gypsy's "pikeys".

The group that plonked themselves on the land by me called themselves "Gypsy's" i called them pikeys as they fit your description completely. Depends how you look at them. By the way have you had them parked at the back of your house and you have had to have someone in your house at all times so you dont get robbed ? or had to have you windows closed because they have emptied the chemical toilet right at the back of you house.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Not all gypsys and travellers are how you would have us believe, As I said before- there are bad elements in every socioeconomic group - labelling them all as the same shows a fundamental lack of willingness on your part to believe that anything other than socially disfunctional is the norm where these people are concerned and that is patently not true.

How come you are so sure? Do you have personal experience of honest, non littering, non scamming, tax paying pikeys?

I asked you earlier - Is it only gypsy's who camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites?

Actually, the way the pikey tarmacking thing works in Kent is one of 2 ways.....either they give you a price which is quite reasonable, do the job and then say that the quoted sum was per meter......or (now that people are wise to that one) they quote a price and then once the work is done they merely say that they had actually quoted a higher (exorbitant) price and demand you pay up (with menaces) .......I have personal experience of both of those situations. (my father and a neighbour)
oops, sorry....I forgot a third scam.......they roll up and demand that you pay them for earlier tarmacking (that you didn't want and didn't know anything about before it appeared on your drive)

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

How come you are so sure? Do you have personal experience of honest, non littering, non scamming, tax paying pikeys?

Actually, the way the pikey tarmacking thing works in Kent is one of 2 ways.....either they give you a price which is quite reasonable, do the job and then say that the quoted sum was per meter......or (now that people are wise to that one) they quote a price and then once the work is done they merely say that they had actually quoted a higher (exorbitant) price and demand you pay up (with menaces) .......I have personal experience of both of those situations. (my father and a neighbour)
oops, sorry....I forgot a third scam.......they roll up and demand that you pay them for earlier tarmacking (that you didn't want and didn't know anything about before it appeared on your drive)

I had the last happen many years ago, they kindly filled in the pot holes on my grandfathers driveway. He had told them not to touch it but they ignored him, he called the police but I arrived before them.

They got the message from me alright!

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Escapee

They got the message from me alright!

Good job they didn't know where you lived!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Good job they didn't know where you lived!

They did, because I lived with my grandfather then, they had apparently been hanging about and driving up and down the road over the period of a few days. I guess they had decided that he was an old guy living on his own and an easy target, they probably had a few targets in the area.

They do not want physical violence, but they gamble that 99% will either pay up or run in the house and call the police. I suppose you could say they would be more likely to come back if the police had arrived, I may of used threatening behaviour but they were able to go on and scam someone else without having to face the police.

They always seem to find an excuse or lame story to come onto your property for a look around, usually asking about tarmac or removing garden rubbish is just to see if you have anything worth stealing.

I think that we are getting a little to hot unde the collar about this.

I will always champion the rights of true gypsies or Romanies because they are very strict about matters of hygiene and morality and have a very strict code by which they live.It would be rather tedious if we were all the same and living the same.I can't but wonder why we should become homogenised as one kind of cultural grouping?Why should our way of life be considered better than theirs?If they pay their way and live decent lives but on the move who am I to call them names and object to their way of life.Why do we all have to be the bluddy same?

Those travellors who don't cause trouble(and I'm sure there must be some)and leave places as they found them, well good luck to them if they can find a decent legal site.

As for the others well I reckon the thought of them living in a council house somewhere on your estate might be rather more than you could bear.Better they are roaming from place to place perhaps?After all how many are there of awful families that make their communities a living horror?No getting rid of them easily and the damage they cause a community can also be expensive plus the costs of cleaning up after them falls on the local taxpayer anyway.

And before you ask if I'd like them next to me..yes to true Romanies and those decent travellors that exist and of course no to to the last sort.

I think it is time for a proper discussion of how to deal with these differing groups was undertaken by the government and some solid provisions and plans were made for those who genuinely need more legal sites.At the moment nothing is done while the problem is just moved on and on..

Perhaps if we wrote en masse to the government and relevant agencies in large enough numbers something might be done about it.

Ranting hate filled threads like this won't sort the problem however. I have been very uncomfortable reading this thread in it's entirety as I know that the majority of the people here are decent,kind and generous human beings.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I think that we are getting a little to hot unde the collar about this.

I will always champion the rights of true gypsies or Romanies because they are very strict about matters of hygiene and morality and have a very strict code by which they live.It would be rather tedious if we were all the same and living the same.I can't but wonder why we should become homogenised as one kind of cultural grouping?Why should our way of life be considered better than theirs?If they pay their way and live decent lives but on the move who am I to call them names and object to their way of life.Why do we all have to be the bluddy same?

Those travellors who don't cause trouble(and I'm sure there must be some)and leave places as they found them, well good luck to them if they can find a decent legal site.

As for the others well I reckon the thought of them living in a council house somewhere on your estate might be rather more than you could bear.Better they are roaming from place to place perhaps?After all how many are there of awful families that make their communities a living horror?No getting rid of them easily and the damage they cause a community can also be expensive plus the costs of cleaning up after them falls on the local taxpayer anyway.

And before you ask if I'd like them next to me..yes to true Romanies and those decent travellors that exist and of course no to to the last sort.

I think it is time for a proper discussion of how to deal with these differing groups was undertaken by the government and some solid provisions and plans were made for those who genuinely need more legal sites.At the moment nothing is done while the problem is just moved on and on..

Perhaps if we wrote en masse to the government and relevant agencies in large enough numbers something might be done about it.

Ranting hate filled threads like this won't sort the problem however. I have been very uncomfortable reading this thread in it's entirety as I know that the majority of the people here are decent,kind and generous human beings.

As I have stated before, there is a family in my area who were originaly gypsies, the one woman around my age goes in my local pub. If you mention these travellers/scammers to her it makes her blood boil. True gypsies will have nothing to do with these new age travellers or pikies, however true gypsies appear to be a very small percentage of the people who live in caravans these days.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Sacred Web Warrior,

You talking to me?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It pains me to point this out to you but it was you who titled this thread "Gypsy's - Human Rights - What about us?". Not "Pikeys", but "Gypsy's".

You are absolutely right. I'm sure the suffering you went through to point that out was bareable.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm not about to go round in circles on this<SNIP>

Except you ARE going around in circles and you ARE continuing to accuse me of racism, yet it is quite plain that there is NO racism involved in this debate - except in your head!

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Your comments quite clearly have the potential to offend and undermine someones dignity. As I tried to point out there are law abiding and successful members of the travelling community who integrate well with the settled society. Your generalizations are an affront to their continued attempts to do so.

If I offend a pikey, then I willnot apologise for it - after all THEY don't apologise for being anti-social.

My only generalisation is that the thieving, anti-social, morons that camp on public land ARE pikeys. Therefore, it is also clear that any travellers that are "law abiding and successful members of the travelling community who integrate well with the settled society" are NOT included in that generalisation.

I will not tolerate pikeys. Any travellers/gypsies that stick to legal and social rueles - fine. Live and let live, I say.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You've been called out on this and you don't like it

No at all. You've been going on, and on about racism where there was none. Whatever point you were trying to make has been lost in your attempt to whitewash the pikeys.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Don't, however, try to dance around the core issue of your inability to treat people as individuals by twisting / misinterpreting my words to try and somehow validate your stance.

You are the only one to have twisted words. You attributed racism where there was none.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Not all gypsys and travellers are how you would have us believe,

No, but all pikeys are pikeys.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I asked you earlier - Is it only gypsy's who camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites?

Maybe there are other people who do some of these things sometimes - only pikeys do ALL of them all of the time.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Are you prepared to give a straight honest answer?

To what question? I've responded to everything you've posted. Even the stupid attempts at trying to bring racism into the debate.

BTW - you have so far avoided answering a single of my questions.

[Stuart]

If your problem is with Pikeys, why not call the thread "Pikey's human rights - What about us?"

[Anonymouse]

I may have come in on this thread late, but I always thought the word "gypsy" was synonymous with "traveller", i.e. gypsies travel around. The idea of a permanent encampment - there's one near me with permanent buildings, never mind caravans - seems to contradict that. Any camp a true gypsy might make is, by definition, temporary. A stationary gypsy is a contradiction in terms.

Or have I missed something?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

I may have come in on this thread late, but I always thought the word "gypsy" was synonymous with "traveller", i.e. gypsies travel around. The idea of a permanent encampment - there's one near me with permanent buildings, never mind caravans - seems to contradict that. Any camp a true gypsy might make is, by definition, temporary. A stationary gypsy is a contradiction in terms.

Or have I missed something?

True, but our settled (in large bungalows) Gypsies still refer to themselves as Travellers and would not in any way be associated with Gypsies, Tinkers, Pikeys or New Age Travellers. Those that travel mostly with the fairs during most of the year have regular sites with space for a static and mobile van and contribute to the local community.

Originally Posted by Stuart C

If your problem is with Pikeys, why not call the thread "Pikey's human rights - What about us?"

Be my guest to change the thread title - you can - I can't.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

You talking to me?

Apologies, unintentional.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

You are absolutely right. I'm sure the suffering you went through to point that out was bareable.

It would be considerably more bearable if it were to produce a factual answer rather than a predisposition to a racist attitude which seems unrelenting even when confronted with the law of the land.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Except you ARE going around in circles and you ARE continuing to accuse me of racism, yet it is quite plain that there is NO racism involved in this debate - except in your head!

I'm sorry, but that was a point of law which I quoted earlier - not my opinion or something in my "head". You obviously have a problem in understanding that.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

If I offend a pikey, then I willnot apologise for it - after all THEY don't apologise for being anti-social.

It's a secular, fascist attitude like this which prevents any progress in modern socety. "Two wrongs don't make a right"

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

My only generalisation is that the thieving, anti-social, morons that camp on public land ARE pikeys. Therefore, it is also clear that any travellers that are "law abiding and successful members of the travelling community who integrate well with the settled society" are NOT included in that generalisation.

Why didn't you make that particular distinction / generalization earlier? The burglars who broke into my house and stole my car several weeks ago - they didn't camp on public land. Based on your rationale - should I advise CID to rule out "Pikeys" from their initial line of enquiries? Please advise.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

I will not tolerate pikeys.

That generalization pretty much substantiates my previous assertion that your tendancies are more racist and preprejudiced than formed from any type of proven social interaction or personal experiences(s).

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

travellers/gypsies that stick to legal and social rueles - fine. Live and let live, I say.

Hooray!! for you - However, there's something ironic about someone espousing the sociological merits of a particular group who "stick" to legal rules (that's a new concept - "legal rules" - here on planet earth we call "legal rules" "the law") when they themselves would question the validty of tenets of law quoted to them.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

No at all. You've been going on, and on about racism where there was none. Whatever point you were trying to make has been lost in your attempt to whitewash the pikeys.

My earlier quote from the Race Relations Act refers, as indeed do comments attributable to, and by, you which have been made and published in the context of this thread.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

You are the only one to have twisted words. You attributed racism where there was none.

See above.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

No, but all pikeys are pikeys.

This is not in dispute.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Maybe there are other people who do some of these things sometimes (Really? Do you seriously think so?) - only pikeys do ALL of them all of the time. To what question? I've responded to everything you've posted. Even the stupid attempts at trying to bring racism into the debate.

BTW - you have so far avoided answering a single of my questions.

I don't actually recall you asking a direct question - I may be wrong - but I seem to recall that anything you have mooted on this subject, including the thread title, you have put forward as a statement of fact without any substantive evidence to endorse same.

If you're intent on arguing then please at least make the effort. Otherwise, if you've a question to ask, feel free to do so.

Originally Posted by handyman

Theres noting stopping travellers buying houses legit.

And if they state they dont have the money then Its rubbish as we sold loads of £22,000 4x4's to pikeys in morecambe all cash deals.

I thought the maximum spend on a car in cash was £10,000 , this is to stop money laundering.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

</endless accusations of racism>

I'm getting tired of your continued attempts to brand me as racist.

You will note that several others have agreed with what I have said, and they too have used the word pikey. I note that you have, however, chosen to single me out for the racist label.

Go find a new bridge...