Pikeys - Human Rights - What about us?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Fine, like I said, show me how their 'culture' challenges the perception that I (and millions of others) have of them.

Oh, and btw, if any of these cultured people camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites, then don't bother, because the people that indulge in that are PIKEYS!

Sorry, but it's not up to me to change your mind / perception and I'm disappointed that you now feel the need to drag "millions of others" into it in some inane attempt at qualifying your opinion. I was merely pointing out that you appear to be a racist (certainly under the terms of the Race Relations Act and the definition of Racial Discrimination therein).

I don't write the law, therefore this is not my opinion, but according to the aforementioned Act it is very clear that anyone making sweeping generalization comments such as yours is quite evidently in breach of said law - and I quote

"A person harasses another on grounds of race or ethnic or national origins when he or she engages in unwanted conduct that has the purpose or effect of:

• violating that other person’s dignity; or
• creating an intimidating or hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them."

This, by definition, quite clearly in the eyes of the law and legislation, defines you and your description of "pikeys" as racist.

racist
adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion.

Now, if you don't feel that your comments constitute racism there's little or no arguing to be done here but I would ask if your intolerance allows you to seriously purport that people who "camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites" are of a mindset unique only to the Travelling, Romany and Gypsy communities?

Thanks in advance.

RAMROD - Cheers, no malice intended.

[Escapee]

The company I recently left had a Pikie problem a few months ago, I didn't post anything about it at the time because it involved a security issue and one of the members here would of probably gone on a rant defending them.

One of the companies sites had the electric gate forced open and they camped in the car park, the local council operated "A policy of Tolerance" this is prodly displayed on their website. The council and police were called to no avail, as the council were limp wristed. Some of the Pikies had tried to gain access to the buildings by trying to rush through the door as people opened it, and some even tried to get in through the office windows. Fortunately the site contained the facility that designed and tested some high grade crypto products used for government comms, it apparently took one phone call to the right government department and the police and local council shifted their backsides to get the problem sorted. Everyone was sent home, loads of police were brought in and that same evening they were removed from the site.

That should be standard practice in any situation where they have camped on land with no permission.

PS: forgot to mention the same night they arrived the metal gates were smashed down at the builders yard, and a load of stuff stolen!

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

"A person harasses another on grounds of race or ethnic or national origins

But our 'pikeys' aren't of a different race or ethnic origin are they? They are just travellers

RAMROD - Cheers, no malice intended.

[Mr Angry]

Ramrod, That's exactly what I'm getting at.

"Pikeys" are distinct from "Gypsys", "Travellers" and "Romanys" proper. I've no doubt that there are bad elements in all of these groups - but it's very unhelpful to generalize.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

... is quite evidently in breach of said law - and I quote

"A person harasses another on grounds of race or ethnic or national origins when he or she engages in unwanted conduct that has the purpose or effect of:

• violating that other person’s dignity;

...

I am not harrassing anyone, nor have I suggested that pikeys have a common ethnic or national origin (or race, for that matter) and I have only categorised them in terms of their anti-social behaviour.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Now, if you don't feel that your comments constitute racism there's little or no arguing to be done here but I would ask if your intolerance allows you to seriously purport that people who "camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites"

Which I believe describes pikeys very well and does not include even one word that fits with the definition of racism you trawled up.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

are of a mindset unique only to the Travelling, Romany and Gypsy communities?

Now YOU are making the connection between pikeys and the 'cultured travellers' you seem to think I am generalising about. Which means the racism is in YOUR mind.

I have not at any time made any racial, ethnic or national connection with the word 'pikey'. I have only used terms to describe their anti-social behaviour. Do you consider those things in any way 'cultured'? Do you really believe we should have respect for people that behave that way?

And yes, the pikey mindset is unique to them and their ilk. Unless you can point me to another population group that is equally anti-social?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm from Belfast, Northern Ireland. We gave up on using racist, quasi fascist terms such as "pikey" to describe members of the travelling community many yearspikeyin favour of endeavouring to understand their culture and aspirations.

The result has been the launch of several programmes such as this http://www.nihe.gov.uk/news/news.asp?Id=91

Nowadays there is no discernable degree of crime directly attributable to members of tdiscernableng community. Indeed the PSNI report of February of this year noted that the one area of crime which showed an alarming increase here in Northern Ireland were those carried out by narrow minded bigots which fall under the term "race / hate crime".

Mind you, don't take that as an invite to move over here.

Let me just say that in this area we had these traveling robbers and con artists, drive repairmen, traveling church roof lead removers call them what you want, Turn up and plonk themselves on a plot of land. There was a increase in breakins, cars where stolen. Local kids where attacked by gangs of traverkids and the land they where on had to be cleaned and i do mean cleaned after they where evicted. We are now paying for the eviction via council tax.

My point.

If i can go and find a job and then buy a house why can they not go out and get a job and buy a plot of land for there caravan and highly expensive 4x4 and merc. They are a blite on the lives of hard working people who have better things to pay for than evicting a load of freeloaders and robbers.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

But our 'pikeys' aren't of a different race or ethnic origin are they? They are just travellers

Exactly, so how can the word pikey be racist?

If you still think I got the definition of a pikey wrong - check this out

---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

"Pikeys" are distinct from "Gypsys", "Travellers" and "Romanys" proper.

I think you'll find that to most people the term 'pikey' means the ones of whatever cultural background that behave like anti-social ar5eh0le5.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I've no doubt that there are bad elements in all of these groups - but it's very unhelpful to generalize.

Actually, in this case it's VERY helpful, because I don't actually care whether they are Gypsy, Traveller or Romany - if they camp illegally, steal, drive illegal cars and generally trash the place, then they royally deserve to be called pikeys.

If a 'proper Romany' gypsy were to do all the things I've mentioned, then what's the damned difference?

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Actually, in this case it's VERY helpful, because I don't actually care whether they are Gypsy, Traveller or Romany - if they camp illegally, steal, drive illegal cars and generally trash the place, then they royally deserve to be called pikeys.

You get my full agreement on that. Of course those who have not had these pikeys move in very close to them have not had the full blown experience of them. For those of us that have had them move on to land close by, Then you will know why they are hated so much.

[budwieser]

Sorry for this guys, But if you don`t "Pay your Way", IE through National Insurance contributions, I thought that you wern`t entitled to NHS care or the like and certainly not to have rights over good, Hard working citizens who pay their taxes.!
I f you want all the benefits from the Government, then pay your way!

Originally Posted by budwieser

Sorry for this guys, But if you don`t "Pay your Way", IE through National Insurance contributions, I thought that you wern`t entitled to NHS care or the like and certainly not to have rights over good, Hard working citizens who pay their taxes.!
I f you want all the benefits from the Government, then pay your way!

Come on now

The Human Rights brigade had that little problem removed for them years ago.

Originally Posted by budwieser

If you want all the benefits from the Government, then pay your way!

I believe it is exactly this that the pikeys are trying to get around in court.

---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Escapee

The company I recently left had a Pikie problem a few months ago, I didn't post anything about it at the time because it involved a security issue and one of the members here would of probably gone on a rant defending them.

Originally Posted by Escapee

PS: forgot to mention the same night they arrived the metal gates were smashed down at the builders yard, and a load of stuff stolen!

There you go being a nasty racist, bigoted nazi - assuming the pikeys did that...

[budwieser]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Come on now

The Human Rights brigade had that little problem removed for them years ago.

So you don`t agree with me then?
That if you want the benefits, you must contribute and abide by the law?

[Mr Angry]

Sacred Web Warrior,

It pains me to point this out to you but it was you who titled this thread "Gypsy's - Human Rights - What about us?". Not "Pikeys", but "Gypsy's".

I'm not about to go round in circles on this and I've already established that there is a distinct difference between gypsys and pikeys - both racially and culturally. I've also provided you with a section of the Race Relations Act which you don't seem prepared to acknowledge as correct (somewhat surprising for someone who, given their published views on litter, theft etc, one can only assume to be on the side of the law).

I'm sorry to further point out to you that it's a fundamental tenet of law that it's not actually up to you to decide when you are and when you are not harrassing someone (for the avoidance of doubt I was pointing out to you the fact that you were violating another persons dignity - I thought the fact that I had highlighted that particular phrase may have been a clue). Your idea of harmless name calling is someone elses interpretation of harrassment / bullying.

Your comments quite clearly have the potential to offend and undermine someones dignity. As I tried to point out there are law abiding and successful members of the travelling community who integrate well with the settled society. Your generalizations are an affront to their continued attempts to do so.

You've been called out on this and you don't like it - fair enough. Don't, however, try to dance around the core issue of your inability to treat people as individuals by twisting / misinterpreting my words to try and somehow validate your stance. Not all gypsys and travellers are how you would have us believe, As I said before- there are bad elements in every socioeconomic group - labelling them all as the same shows a fundamental lack of willingness on your part to believe that anything other than socially disfunctional is the norm where these people are concerned and that is patently not true.

I asked you earlier - Is it only gypsy's who camp on public land, drive untaxed, uninsured and stolen cars, go around stealing, half tarmac-ing driveways before doing a runner or dumping rubbish on their illegal campsites?

Are you prepared to give a straight honest answer?

Originally Posted by budwieser

So you don`t agree with me then?
That if you want the benefits, you must contribute and abide by the law?

I do agree, However when have you ever seen them give. They only take.

[Escapee]

[QUOTE=ScaredWebWarriorThere you go being a nasty racist, bigoted nazi - assuming the pikeys did that... [/QUOTE]

I apologise, it was obviously a huge coincidence.