online gaming and NTL

[StuS]

3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms lutn-t2cam1-a-v135.inet.ntl.com [62.252.67.101]
4 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms lutn-t2core-a-ge-wan61.inet.ntl.com [213.107.47.65]
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms pop-bb-a-so-201-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.185]
6 13 ms 11 ms 12 ms nth-bb-b-so-400-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.13]
7 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms lee-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.102]
8 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]
9 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms amst-ic-1-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.94]
10 75 ms 75 ms 75 ms ams-ix-nkf-1.router.nl.demon.net [195.69.144.99]
11 75 ms 160 ms 77 ms tc1-core-2-ge-1-0-1-0.router.nl.demon.net[82.161.255.5]
12 75 ms 76 ms 80 ms sin-core-1-at-1-2-1-0.router.nl.demon.net [82.161.255.26]
13 104 ms 106 ms 103 ms games.router.nl.demon.net [195.11.247.144]

something's broken

[hammered]

Tried just routing my connection through my router and not through my server & router last night. Had an absolute knightmare!!! Spikes were as bad as they used to be with my Terayon... I'll test again over the weekend, but a direct connection to my modem instead. I really don't think that it's going to make any difference though...

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by StuS

3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms lutn-t2cam1-a-v135.inet.ntl.com [62.252.67.101]
4 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms lutn-t2core-a-ge-wan61.inet.ntl.com [213.107.47.65]
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms pop-bb-a-so-201-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.185]
6 13 ms 11 ms 12 ms nth-bb-b-so-400-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.13]
7 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms lee-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.102]
8 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]
9 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms amst-ic-1-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.94]
10 75 ms 75 ms 75 ms ams-ix-nkf-1.router.nl.demon.net [195.69.144.99]
11 75 ms 160 ms 77 ms tc1-core-2-ge-1-0-1-0.router.nl.demon.net[82.161.255.5]
12 75 ms 76 ms 80 ms sin-core-1-at-1-2-1-0.router.nl.demon.net [82.161.255.26]
13 104 ms 106 ms 103 ms games.router.nl.demon.net [195.11.247.144]

something's broken

Two things, the UK route is odd, Luton, Poplar-A, Northampton, Leeds, Poplar-B, second obviously there's an issue on AmsIX between ntl and Demon.

No idea whose port is congested though, that'll have to be tested by someone on ntl who has something else in AmsIX to ping, perhaps news-europe.giganews.com will have the answers?

http://www.giganews.com/performance.html reports my reverse traceroute from there as being 13 - 15ms.

These guys have 10Gbit ports at AmsIX so should be an EXCELLENT test of ntl's peering, theirs is somewhat unlikely to be in strife

[Chrysalis]

its the infamous 62.253.188.94, had no end of problems with that hop that made me move a server to different transit just to avoid it.

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

haha ignition take a look at this.

when I first entered the traceroute page I was on the colc-2 proxy and route was this.

216-196-110-1.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.1) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 amst-ic-1.inet.ntl.com (195.69.144.40) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 pop-bb-b-as0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.93) 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms
4 lee-bb-a-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.237) 13 ms 15 ms 31 ms
5 nth-bb-b-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.101) 17 ms 17 ms 19 ms
6 colc-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.206) 19 ms 19 ms 20 ms
7 colc-cache-2.server.ntli.net (213.107.224.18) 19 ms 26 ms 19 ms

so I thought to myself I am going to use a leics proxy see if the routing changes and bam.

1 216-196-110-1.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.1) 9 ms 0 ms 6 ms
2 216-196-108-122.ams.giganews.com (216.196.108.122) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 so-4-2.core2.Amsterdam1.Level3.net (212.73.240.181) 3 ms 0 ms 0 ms
6 ge-0-0-0.mp2.Amsterdam1.Level3.net (4.68.96.197) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
7 as-1-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net (212.187.128.25) 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms
8 ae-0-52.gar2.London1.Level3.net (4.68.116.44) 7 ms ae-0-56.gar2.London1.Level3.net (4.68.116.172) 8 ms ae-0-52.gar2.London1.Level3.net (4.68.116.44) 7 ms
9 195.50.91.70 (195.50.91.70) 17 ms 13 ms 13 ms
10 nth-bb-b-so-400-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.13) 13 ms 13 ms 15 ms
11 leic-t2core-b-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.113) 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms
12 leic-sm-cat-v2.inet.ntl.com (82.3.32.61) 13 ms 15 ms 13 ms
13 leic-cache-7.server.ntli.net (82.3.32.77) 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

nottingham

1 216-196-110-1.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.1) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 adm-b2-geth3-2.telia.net (213.248.73.1) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 adm-bb2-pos0-0-0.telia.net (213.248.64.189) 8 ms 0 ms 0 ms
4 ldn-bb2-pos7-2-0.telia.net (213.248.65.157) 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms
5 ldn-b2-pos11-1.telia.net (213.248.74.10) 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms
6 ntl-111210-ldn-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.100.38) 164 ms 145 ms *
7 bre-bb-b-as0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.122) 22 ms 24 ms 21 ms
8 bre-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.86) 21 ms 21 ms 42 ms
9 gfd-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.150) 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms
10 nth-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.97) 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms
11 nth-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.118) 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms
12 nott-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.38) 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms
13 nott-cache-1.server.ntli.net (62.254.0.12) 17 ms 23 ms 17 ms

guildford

1 216-196-110-1.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.1) 278 ms 1 ms 11 ms
2 adm-b2-geth3-2.telia.net (213.248.73.1) 1 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 adm-bb2-pos0-0-0.telia.net (213.248.64.189) 0 ms 1 ms 0 ms
4 ldn-bb2-pos7-2-0.telia.net (213.248.65.157) 9 ms 8 ms 10 ms
5 ldn-b2-pos12-3.telia.net (213.248.64.74) 8 ms 9 ms 10 ms
6 * * ntl-111210-ldn-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.100.38) 139 ms
7 bre-bb-b-as0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.122) 23 ms 23 ms 24 ms
8 bre-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.86) 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms
9 gfd-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.150) 19 ms 18 ms 18 ms
10 glfd-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.30) 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms
11 glfd-cache-3.server.ntli.net (62.252.0.6) 19 ms 17 ms 16 ms

crazy stuff all static routing I believe.

[ToiletGamer]

Im not sure what all of this stuff means but I too have been having problems with lag in Online games. So ill just post this for you to check out. I live in the Grantham, Lincolnshire Area. NG31

news.giganews.com

1 gw-vlan201.dca.giganews.com (216.196.98.1) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 216.196.96.122 (216.196.96.122) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 ash-bb1-geth7-3-1-0.telia.net (213.248.88.81) 1 ms ash-bb1-geth6-3-3-0.telia.net (213.248.89.1) 1 ms ash-bb1-geth7-3-1-0.telia.net (213.248.88.81) 0 ms
4 nyk-bb1-pos7-1-0.telia.net (213.248.80.70) 6 ms nyk-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net (213.248.80.137) 6 ms 7 ms
5 ldn-bb1-pos7-1-0.telia.net (213.248.65.89) 75 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (213.248.65.97) 74 ms ldn-bb1-pos7-1-0.telia.net (213.248.65.89) 75 ms
6 ldn-b2-pos12-3.telia.net (213.248.64.74) 76 ms ldn-b2-pos11-2.telia.net (213.248.64.78) 110 ms 111 ms
7 ntl-111210-ldn-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.100.38) 244 ms * 209 ms
8 bre-bb-b-as0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.122) 210 ms 102 ms 135 ms
9 * bre-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.86) 109 ms 136 ms
10 gfd-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.150) 108 ms 111 ms 111 ms
11 nth-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.97) 152 ms 152 ms 117 ms
12 nth-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.118) 151 ms 179 ms 150 ms
13 nott-t2core-b-pos51.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.38) 150 ms 115 ms 150 ms
14 nott-cache-15.server.ntli.net (62.254.0.59) 147 ms 118 ms 148 ms

news-europe.giganews.com

1 216-196-110-1.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.1) 64 ms 9 ms 0 ms
2 adm-b2-geth3-2.telia.net (213.248.73.1) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 adm-bb1-pos0-0-0.telia.net (213.248.64.185) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
4 ldn-bb1-pos7-0-0.telia.net (213.248.65.149) 8 ms 10 ms 8 ms
5 ldn-b2-pos11-2.telia.net (213.248.64.78) 46 ms 42 ms 45 ms
6 * * *
7 bre-bb-b-as0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.122) 128 ms 86 ms 85 ms
8 bre-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.86) 87 ms 87 ms 87 ms
9 gfd-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.150) 84 ms 82 ms 82 ms
10 nth-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.97) 83 ms 82 ms 82 ms
11 nth-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.118) 82 ms 82 ms 83 ms
12 nott-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.38) 86 ms 88 ms 89 ms
13 nott-cache-15.server.ntli.net (62.254.0.59) 88 ms 86 ms 87 ms

[Chrysalis]

it means that depending on where you live the route to other isp's can be entirely different. So you may have a good ubr like a friend in a different city but if ntl route you over lower quality transit then tough luck, most of the time this may not have a noticeable affect but in some cases it may cause problems and people will be scratching heads over it because their mate on ntl is fine so it must be their computer.

[hammered]

Thing is Chrysalis, when-ever you contact NTL over any sort of gaming/latency issue, they will blame your system straight away! As soon as you tell them that you have anything plugged into cable before your computer, that's where the fault is, nowhere else. I've contacted NTL several times over this and each time all they have said is that the problem is with me running a firewall and router on the connection...

I've even once demanded that they straight away put me through to a 3rd line person in the UK, so that I can get someone there to look at this. But they refuse to do this...
I know it's not the person in the callcenter's fault, but you get so frustrated when you know what the problem is but the callcenter insist on going through all the crap that you know isn't going to make a difference, even after you've told them that you know what you're talking about...

[Chrysalis]

Thats down to them sticking people in tech support who arent tech savvy but instead chosen on customer relation skills, so when its something outside the scope of their script they become lost. I have never got anywhere with tech support when it comes down to pings traceroutes etc. they just dont know what I am talking about instead I email the peering contact.

[[PTG] ]-[00T]

I have been playing BF2 for quite a while now and have lately found that the ping spike is getting totally ridiculous.
My PC is pretty much brand new - and I run a series of anti-malware and spyware utilities before I do anything else.
As my clan tend to play at 8pm (a busy time for ntl users by all accounts), I lag sooo much that it is near impossible to be of any use to my clan.

I have contacted the 'customer services' people and I got a email response suggesting I reduce my network card settings to 10Mbit and Half Duplex - Having spoken to a few of the PC buffs in my clan they were adamanet that it SHOULD run best on 100Mbit and FULL-duplex. as that allows the info packets to go both ways at once - the kind of thing that would be handy in online gaming.
I was also told that using P2P programs WHILST playing online would affect my performance (as if I would be stupid enough to do this).

I live in Portsmouth - a very densely populated city and so trying to play before 2am is a total joke.
(I don't use a router, cause I don't need one)
But the ping spike remains at all times of the day and night, its just the spike stays under 200 late at night.
Am now looking at switching ISP cause this lot don't really seem to care that they can't provide a decent service for anyone who uses their pc for anything more than checking their emails.
I have recently found it spiking on other games too. COD2 now sits at around 150, and even CS was running over 100 today.
I have sorted every possible problem at my end - it seems that the service in my area is dive-bombing
Oh well, another unsatisfied customer to be added to the list.

Soz:
service: 2mb although I noticed recently it says 'up to 2mb' pff
PC: AMD Athlon 3500+
2GB RAM
etc
etc

[hammered]

[PTG] ]-[00T
I'm exactly the same as you mate. I play BF2 regulary as well. Although BF2 does tend to have a slight lag, which I know that dice & EA are supposed to be look at in the new 1.21 patch.

But, yes it is completely unusable at times. I was OK last night for a short time, but then my normal lags started, and it started to get to be a pain again...
There is this thread and another going on about this issue, but from the looks of things us gamers are going to be in for a long wait, as it looks like NTL aren't going to do anything regarding the gaming issues for... well we don't even know if they will look into it.
If you're a hard-core gamer, I reckon you ought to look into moving to ADSL. You might be lucky and be quite close to an exchange so that you can get a decent speed. I can't do that as I'm slap-bang in between two exchanges and I've been told that the max speed on ADSL I can get is 1mb...
If I could get more I think I'd be off like a shot, just so that I can game properly...

[[PTG] ]-[00T]

Hi mate,
I'm not sure about where the nearest exchange is or what kind of bandwidth is available to me where I am located. I'll look into it.
I don't claim to be a "hardcore" gamer - but I am on most nights playing BF2 - I must say I didn't have much of a problem last night - I had to wait until around 2am before it settled down mind.
Just as well [PTG] has a US Division

Still a bit of a pain though - You wonder sometimes what our monthly subscription fees are actually for. Becoz it's sure as hell not improving the service.
Same old story to be honest mate. Crossing fingers the new patch - which should be out pretty soon (to fix the problems with 1.2patch) will sort out the lag issues too.

If you haven't run these lag tweaks for BF2 I suggest you do:
http://bf2lag.b0x.com/top5tips.html

I found that these did make a bit of a difference. Hope they make your BF2 experience a bit better.

[hammered]

No I haven't tried them, Thanx for the tips mate...
I'll try and give it a go either tonight or tomorrow...
If you need to find out details about your exchanges, goto

http://samknows.com

On there just enter your postcode (or if you can get a neighbour phone number who's on BT even better). Then this site will tell you what speed you should be able to get...

Good luck!!!

[[PTG] ]-[00T]

Thx for your suggestion Hammered.
I have found that Bulldog can provide 8mb service and a £5 saving on top
I would reccommend anyone hoping to use broadband for anything other than checking your email - which can be done with dial-up, or even your mobile phone - to switch NOW!!!
Perhaps ntl will get it through their empty heads that they can't charge a fortune for a substandard service.

£24.99 for 2mb or £19.50 for 8mb - hmmm, that's a tough one!!

Oh and no probs on the tips
Check out www.clanPTG.com good community of players always willing to help out fellow gamers

[hammered]

Be careful though, that 8MB is only if you are within 1km of the exchange (I think)... It's all distance orientated, the further away from the exchange the less speed you'll get. Contact Bullbog to find out just what speeds you can expect... With me, it's not worth it as I've found out that the maximum speed I can expect from ADSL is onyl 1mb...

Originally Posted by [PTG] ]-[00T

Thx for your suggestion Hammered.
I have found that Bulldog can provide 8mb service and a £5 saving on top
I would reccommend anyone hoping to use broadband for anything other than checking your email - which can be done with dial-up, or even your mobile phone - to switch NOW!!!
Perhaps ntl will get it through their empty heads that they can't charge a fortune for a substandard service.

£24.99 for 2mb or £19.50 for 8mb - hmmm, that's a tough one!!

Oh and no probs on the tips
Check out www.clanPTG.com good community of players always willing to help out fellow gamers

Hve you missed this thread??? http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=43768 Bulldog is on its way out of here