Muslims to march in London

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If football/religion didn't exist, those specific fights wouldn't have occured, as they wouldn't have had the excuse
It's a grey area.

Unlikely - these people tend to be those who'd hijack any bangwagon to justify their actions. If they hadn't found those specific ones then they'd have used another.

Politics has caused death and wars, should we do away with that? Power, greed, wealth, all other well-known causes of wars.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ D

No it's not



For 'fact' read 'my opinion is'.



No, religion didn't cause any of those. Nowhere did any of the holy teachings of any of them say "go out and kill because I told you to". Religion was used as the excuse. For example there are gangs who take flicknives to football matches and kick seven bells in to each other.

Did football cause the fights?

No, it was used as the excuse. People will kill and fight no matter what - all they need is an excuse.

I am not here to fight with you but you really need to look at the facts.

By your own admission religion has been used as an excuse. Do away with religion and, bingo!, you do away with one of the most fundamental reasons (see "excuse") for the butchery and extermination of people who don't subscribe to a particular religious belief.

It's not rocket science and, in that context, I stand by my assertion that the original poster was right.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I am not here to fight with you but you really need to look at the facts.

By your own admission religion has been used as an excuse. Do away with religion and, bingo!, you do away with one of the most fundamental reasons (see "excuse") for the butchery and extermination of people who don't subscribe to a particular religious belief.

It's not rocket science and, in that context, I stand by my assertion that the original poster was right.

It's up to you to think whatever you want - but if you seriously believe that if you'd removed religion from the equasion then these people would not have fought or killed then indeed, let's leave it there.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ D

It's up to you to think whatever you want - but if you serious believe that if you'd removed religion from the equasion then these people would not have fought or killed then indeed, let's leave it there.

With all due respect, yes, I do believe that to be the case.

What other reason, beyond a rationale prejudiced against the religion / religious beliefs of the jews, would have brought about the holocaust?

The crusades and the Spanish inquisition were carried out purely on religious grounds. What other ulterior motive was there for them to take place?

Rwanda & the Balkans. Socioeconomic conflicts based on religious beliefs.

There are currently 18 acknowledged significant religious conflicts ongoing in the world which, collectively, have accounted for many hundreds of thousands of deaths.

"Power, greed, wealth, all other well-known causes of wars". Indeed. And also rife in almost every religious practice throughout the globe.

Yes, lets leave it there.

[Russ]

Thank you.

[driver_problems]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Spanish inquisition were carried out purely on religious grounds.

the inquisition was largely based around removing islam and the arab administration from the spanish peninsular. That's why eating ham is popular in Spain - as it proved you weren't 'one of them'

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Russ D

It's up to you to think whatever you want - but if you seriously believe that if you'd removed religion from the equasion then these people would not have fought or killed then indeed, let's leave it there.

It's as I said in an earlier post really, religion gives the trouble makers a very large captive audience. If these masses of people were not drawn together by religion, and in the case of some religions "brainwashed" it would be another story. Religion can be a very powerful form of brainwashing, there is no other powerful form that can persuade someone to take their own life and the life of others so easily.

Removing religion would make it harder for the extreme element to find gullible recruits.

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

By your own admission religion has been used as an excuse. Do away with religion and, bingo!, the idiots would just find another excuse.

Fixed that for you

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If football/religion didn't exist, those specific fights wouldn't have occured, as they wouldn't have had the excuse
It's a grey area.

Sorry I'm with Russ on this one..There are those who will because of their jealousy,greed or venality use any platform or activity to further their nasty small minded insular outlook on life and try to impose it on others.Some will do anything for a ruck and to cause dissension because it makes them feel better.Which it is why a few muslims,football supp..err....hooligans,poll tax rioters and so called animal activists will hijack any event to make themselves look more important than they really are.Is Bin Laiden really a prophet of the muslim world or a man who feels that he has been slighted by his vast family and really should be in charge of running his country and all Muslims?

I just saw a word used to describe the protest, yesterday - 'dignified' - from what I saw it was all that & more.

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by homealone

I just saw a word used to describe the protest, yesterday - 'dignified' - from what I saw it was all that & more.

More dignified than some of the protests in this thread no doubt

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If football/religion didn't exist, those specific fights wouldn't have occured, as they wouldn't have had the excuse
It's a grey area.

The kinds of people who would start a fight over religion or football would start a fight anyway. They would just find another excuse if they didn't have football or religion.

[driver_problems]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

The kinds of people who would start a fight over religion or football would start a fight anyway. They would just find another excuse if they didn't have football or religion.

you are right! I know this bloke who has/did have videos of social unrest type things - poll tax riots and the like, and he was involved in the local footbal teams 'crew etc. You'd call round his place and he would say things like 'look at this bit again' and rewind it and so on

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If football/religion didn't exist, those specific fights wouldn't have occured, as they wouldn't have had the excuse
It's a grey area.

My point exactly!

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

The kinds of people who would start a fight over religion or football would start a fight anyway. They would just find another excuse if they didn't have football or religion.

So you admit that religion and football cause fights? (although I don't think football has caused something like the crusades, or the inquisition, which was started in france to root out heretics like the cathars)