Muslims to march in London - Page 5

herbert clinker · 10-02-2006, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Good to see you're still able to put a well-reasoned argument forward then

of course.i know bull sh*t when i see it.

integrated into our community's my *rse,they look after there own.always have always will.

10-02-2006, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I do know that the organisers are requesting a peaceful demonstration. However the reality is that some idiots will do their best to hijack the good intentions of the majority of demonstrators and we will see what happens.

If there's going to be as many as has been suggested, then I suspect that it wil be very hard to ensure it remains as planned. But as you said - we'll see what happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

What I find a bit sad is that there are many views on here which assume that all mulsims are like that.

Like what? In what way are we generalising that is invalid?

Even you have mentioned being offended. Tell me, which of these cartoons is such a problem? Any specific one, all, some? Because I think they're mostly lame - several avoid depicting Muhammed anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I honestly dont see how anyone can draw that conclusion from what you've seen so far,

We wouldn't dare draw anything, considering the trouble we might get into...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

and feel its only just said out of stupidity or some sort of bigotted outlook

Yeah. We're all dumb, have no understanding of any of the issues and can only see our own view of things.

Let's check up a definition of the word 'bigot':

Quote:

a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

Sounds to me like that could just as well apply to a large number of Muslims too.

basa · 10-02-2006, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

So you believe that, if another party was in power, they wouldn't want the Muslim vote?

Yes they would .. that is my point, it is the legislators and governers from their ivory towers whomever they may be who are chasing the muslim vote. After all it is the fastest growing section in our community !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

IMO, and as I've said before, what makes the UK such a good place to live is the fact that we are multi-cultural - any number of people from differing cultures have settled here and, as a result, have been integrated into our communitys and culture, making the UK a more rounded society.

I disagree, many of the people we are discussing have not integrated and do not accept our satire and humour which is exactly why we are seeing the present troubles. UK is a divided society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

I agree that there is a higher likelihood of Muslims being elected in areas where there is a higher proportion of Muslim voters - however, I don't agree that there would be an increase in 'pro-Muslim' laws (whatever the hell they are!). Don't forget that a large amount of Muslims still live in the poorer areas of the country - any law that is passed that would benefit them would also benefit the poorer sections of the non-Muslim communitys.

The race and religious hate laws are 'muslim' laws. They do not protect whites from racial or religious attack simply because the law does not seem to recognise that whites can be racially attacked ??

For example just stop and think if it was the BNP rioting and marching against some perceived insult, what would have been the police reaction. A bit more than a photo opportunity ??

Nugget · 10-02-2006, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbert clinker

of course.i know bull sh*t when i see it.

integrated into our community's my *rse,they look after there own.always have always will.

So you wouldn't look after 'your own' then? Of course, if you had your way, I suppose that they'd all be shipped back to the Middle East? Of course, then some poor white fellow would have to do all the crappy jobs that he thinks are beneath him.

Still, don't let economics (or, in fact, any sort of knowledge) get in the way of a good rant, eh?

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

I disagree, many of the people we are discussing have not integrated and do not accept our satire and humour which is exactly why we are seeing the present troubles. UK is a divided society.

It's fine that you disagree - that's what the forum's all about

I have to say that, whereas some Muslims may not have integrated, the vast majority have - as has been said a number oftimes (in a number of threads), most Muslims (and Afro-Caribbeans etc) are 2nd or 3rd generation British now anyway, and are perfectly willing to abide by UK laws etc. Unfortunately, there are members of Muslims communitys who aren't willing to, just as their are huge numbers of the 'traditional' white communitys who aren't

I don't think that the UK is a divided society - I understand why people may think that but, IMO, the majority of communitys / cultures are well-integrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

For example just stop and think if it was the BNP rioting and marching against some perceived insult, what would have been the police reaction. A bit more than a photo opportunity ??

The BNP are actually a radical party - just as some Muslims may want to make the UK an Islamic country, the BNP want to make sure that there is no 'ethnic' minority present at all. I aree that the police reaction may have been different, but don't forget that white people are just as capable of violence as Muslims.

Anyway, it was only last week that Nick Griffin and the other guy (whose name escapes me) were found not guilty of inciting racial tension - that's an example of how the justice system can work in favour of someone who I would say was undesirable

As ever, just my opinion

basa · 10-02-2006, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

So you wouldn't look after 'your own' then?

I'm not sure herbert meant it quite that literally. It is not speaking out against this latest (or indeed any) round of idiocy that gives rise to feelings of them 'sticking together'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Of course, if you had your way, I suppose that they'd all be shipped back to the Middle East? Of course, then some poor white fellow would have to do all the crappy jobs that he thinks are beneath him.

Have you ever asked the poor white fellow if he wants that 'crappy' job. Maybe he can't get it because our laws favour immigrants to get it or the shop / restaraunt owner / manager is muslim and only employs other muslims (sticking together). (Have you ever seen a asian shop / restaraunt employ whites ?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Still, don't let economics (or, in fact, any sort of knowledge) get in the way of a good rant, eh?

Ah the old 'economics', we need immigrants to prop up our failing pension schemes, argument !

B*llocks.

herbert clinker · 10-02-2006, 10:57

here we go again,all the muslims seem to do is work in crappy jobs,live in crappy housing in your world.
thats what i mean about bullsh*t.
and yes i would have them all shipped back to the middle east including the ones born in this country.kick the lot of them out and close the gates,this country would be a lot safer without them.
and i'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing this country needs them.why does it,it never needed them before why does it need them now.if they were all to leave this country tomorrow this country would still carry on.

---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

I'm not sure herbert meant it quite that literally. It is not speaking out against this latest (or indeed any) round of idiocy that gives rise to feelings of them 'sticking together'.

Have you ever asked the poor white fellow if he wants that 'crappy' job. Maybe he can't get it because our laws favour immigrants to get it or the shop / restaraunt owner / manager is muslim and only employs other muslims (sticking together). (Have you ever seen a asian shop / restaraunt employ whites ?)

Ah the old 'economics', we need immigrants to prop up our failing pension schemes, argument !

B*llocks.

nice one basa.

Nugget · 10-02-2006, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbert clinker

here we go again,all the muslims seem to do is work in crappy jobs,live in crappy housing in your world.
thats what i mean about bullsh*t.
and yes i would have them all shipped back to the middle east including the ones born in this country.kick the lot of them out and close the gates,this country would be a lot safer without them.
and i'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing this country needs them.why does it,it never needed them before why does it need them now.if they were all to leave this country tomorrow this country would still carry on.

Ah, far-right politics are still alive and well in the UK then

If you actually raised your blinkered eyes from inspecting your own navel for a moment, you may care to look back and see that the UK invited members of many different cultures to work in the UK after the war, as there wasn't actually the manpower available to keep the economy running. As a result, we now have black / asian / muslim / whatever members of the population who are just as British as you are.

herbert clinker · 10-02-2006, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Ah, far-right politics are still alive and well in the UK then

If you actually raised your blinkered eyes from inspecting your own navel for a moment, you may care to look back and see that the UK invited members of many different cultures to work in the UK after the war, as there wasn't actually the manpower available to keep the economy running. As a result, we now have black / asian / muslim / whatever members of the population who are just as British as you are.

if i remember right it wasn't the uk who invited different cultures over after the war,it was london transport that invited them over because there was a shortage of bus drivers.
never were the people of this country asked if they wanted them here.
they are british in name only,i'm true british.british by birthright british by ancestory.
there black british/asian british/muslim british. as i said british in name only.

10-02-2006, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Ah, far-right politics are still alive and well in the UK then

If you actually raised your blinkered eyes from inspecting your own navel for a moment, you may care to look back and see that the UK invited members of many different cultures to work in the UK after the war, as there wasn't actually the manpower available to keep the economy running. As a result, we now have black / asian / muslim / whatever members of the population who are just as British as you are.

Absolutely, we asked for help after the Second World War, we asked for help when setting up the NHS (hence the large number of 'Asian' doctors) and we also had large numbers of British passport holders from previous Commonwealth countries come over when they were expelled from Uganda.

A large proportion of our multiculturalism is due to our colonial past, we reaped the benefit of exploiting the world, then, and now, to an extent, we are 'paying' for it.

Derek · 10-02-2006, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbert clinker

they are british in name only,i'm true british.british by birthright british by ancestory.

How far back to you go then for the people to be kicked out?

Anyone with Irish blood? How about Viking blood? They were immigrants (albeit not in the traditional way) but they interbred with the 'british' people.

Kick them all out as well?

It'll be very lonely then for the few 'pure' brits left.

Ramrod · 10-02-2006, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

As a result, we now have black / asian / muslim / whatever members of the population who are just as British as you are.

lol.........not wrong there! I was speaking to an Indian chap last week about Indian call centers and I was the one defending them whereas he was really slagging them off (in quite a racist way)

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

A large proportion of our multiculturalism is due to our colonial past, we reaped the benefit of exploiting the world, then, and now, to an extent, we are 'paying' for it.

I've always felt that to be unfair.....this generation didn't exploit the empire/use the slave trade......why should we pay for the misdeeds of those who went before us? But thats a topic for another thread.

Nugget · 10-02-2006, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbert clinker

if i remember right it wasn't the uk who invited different cultures over after the war,it was london transport that invited them over because there was a shortage of bus drivers.
never were the people of this country asked if they wanted them here.
they are british in name only,i'm true british.british by birthright british by ancestory.
there black british/asian british/muslim british. as i said british in name only.

What? Wasn't London Transport part of the UK then? Wouldn't they have had to go through the government of the day to get it allowed. Anyway, for some strange reason, you've managed to prove my point that there was a shortage of skilled workers. Mind you, how you're going to explain the presence of black and asian families being in Birmingham and Manchester directly after the war should be interesting - I shouldn't think that had anything to do with London Transport.

Oh, and as for you being 'true' British? I've said it before - chances are that, if you're so sure of your ancestry going back hundreds of years, you're probably French. Go figure.

10-02-2006, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezzo

It'll be very lonely then for the few 'pure' brits left.

The history of the people of the British Isles suggests that they died long ago - the present population is almost entirely a mix of the native and the invaders.

basa · 10-02-2006, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

Ah, far-right politics are still alive and well in the UK then

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

If you actually raised your blinkered eyes from inspecting your own navel for a moment, you may care to look back and see that the UK invited members of many different cultures to work in the UK after the war, as there wasn't actually the manpower available to keep the economy running. As a result, we now have black / asian / muslim / whatever members of the population who are just as British as you are.

Agreed and accepted, but..........

It is not immigration that is the problem, it is the sheer numbers now that is the problem. Has no one ever heard of 'optimum population' ?? I don't agree we still need immigrant workers. I do not accept they make a positive economic contribution because those fugures do not include the fact that the infrastructure of the UK is breaking down under the strain. Many bring health problems or mini crime waves. TB is on the increase and as we have seen many are into organised crime.

On top of that we now have rioting over cartoons ffs !!

How bad does it have to get before we realise enough is enough.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 10-02-2006, 12:20

This thread looks like its degenrating into Muslims Vs Brits (and people fail to see that a large amount of muslims in the Uk are actually born here. making them British) or Kick Out The Muslims or Im Afraid The Mulsims will take over parliament and establ;ish Khalifah in the UK.....

What I have been tryinf to argue/debate/explain in this thread and the other one relating to pictures, apart from why offence has been caused, is that the rioters are a small minority of islam and not a representation of the muslim faith in general. if we look atr it from the placards displayed on the demo in London, 200 idiots do not represent the muslim faith in the UK, and nor do groups such as Hizbut Tahir or Al Majouroon.

As for condemnation of 9/11; Madrid; London bombings, all the mainstream muslim representatives in the UK have condemned such action. Just because it didnt appear on the front page of the Sun or the Daily Mail does not mean it didnt happen.