Muslims to march in London - Page 4

danielf · 10-02-2006, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

<snip>

you read these things for yourselves, im not defending anyone, all im saying is that its a mockery of religion, regulars on here know me as intolerant of religion but i would never go to the depths that the danish and other newspapers have, muslims are touchy enough already, due to 9/11.

As a fence-sitter myself: I think that some of the sentiments in this thread derive from the fact that it's the western world that is touchy, (but in general rather restrained) following 9/11, Bali, Madrid, London. The reaction to this 'incident' is not helping...

kronas · 10-02-2006, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

But when it suits they can break their own traditions against other faiths, and do we ammass huge march's in protest and judgement.

I think after 9/11, Spain, Bali, 7/7 etc "muslims are touchy ?" :o
[/SIZE]

Islam is a peaceful religon, however muslims as people are very intolerant, will stick by there own as Escapee has stated.

muslim said to me:

"i would kill my own children if i had to protect mohammad he means more to me then my children and if i had to i would "

and this guy is not even fanatical.

strong faiths can sway a human beings heart in so many ways

Chicken · 10-02-2006, 02:47

Quote:

Islamic tradition or Hadith, the stories of the words and actions of Muhammad and his Companions, explicitly prohibits images of Allah, Muhammad and all the major prophets of the Christian and Jewish traditions.

Does that prohibit images of Jesus too then? If so, why aren't they complaining (for want of a better word) about images like the ones returned from a Google image search like
http://images.google.co.uk/images?so...ol&sa=N&tab=wi

Perhaps the Christians should rise up and stone to death the authors of such images

Ramrod · 10-02-2006, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

muslim said to me:

"i would kill my own children if i had to protect mohammad he means more to me then my children and if i had to i would "

and this guy is not even fanatical.

.....are you sure that he's not fanatical?

If thats a non-fanatical muslim then we are in deep sh*t in the west.....

Saaf_laandon_mo · 10-02-2006, 10:07

I still think a lot of people are missing the point as to why this has offended muslims around the world. Please note that before I try and explain again I donot agree with the violent demonstrations that have taken place and the nature of the placards on display be it in the UK or the rest of the world. Addionally groups including the MCB and other representative bodies have stated that such demonstrations are against the guidelines of Islam, and even said that the police should have done more to deal with the placard bearers.

Right.... as a muslim the Prophet is very dear to me. However if someone choses to depict the Prophet in a picture/painting/cartoon based on a description of him that they've read in a Hadith, or other narration then to me thats fine. After all I can't stop you doing that, and if there is any punishment to be derived from you doing so thats between you and God/Allah whatever you want to call Him. However when someone draws a cartoon that makes a mockery of the characteristics of what we as muslims, belkieve to be the most important man ever for us muslims, a man with the most perfect characteristics and traits, then that is where I get offended. I don't think there was any need for that, except to cause offence. Furtehr more to characterise the Prophet as a bomb in a turban wearing person does nothing to promote any good relations between non muslims and muslims in the world today. Many mulsims feel that these cartoons have been published to antagonise muslims, and to provoke the extremists into the actiopns we are seeing today.

For those who say that if we dont like Freedom of speech we should go back to the middle east or 'our own countries' well for a lot of muslims in the UK today Britain is where they're from. Its not that we dont like freedom of speech or dont agree with it, but that we feel it should be used with a bit of respect.

basa · 10-02-2006, 10:11

The reason this country is bending over backward to appease muslims is because Blair wants the muslim vote.

Trouble is it is a double edged sword: Blair sucks up to muslims, muslims join Labour, muslims get elected in ever more muslim wards, pass more pro muslim laws, muslim flag over Westminster.

Russ · 10-02-2006, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Right.... as a muslim the Prophet is very dear to me. However if someone choses to depict the Prophet in a picture/painting/cartoon based on a description of him that they've read in a Hadith, or other narration then to me thats fine. After all I can't stop you doing that, and if there is any punishment to be derived from you doing so thats between you and God/Allah whatever you want to call Him. However when someone draws a cartoon that makes a mockery of the characteristics of what we as muslims, belkieve to be the most important man ever for us muslims, a man with the most perfect characteristics and traits, then that is where I get offended. I don't think there was any need for that, except to cause offence. Furtehr more to characterise the Prophet as a bomb in a turban wearing person does nothing to promote any good relations between non muslims and muslims in the world today. Many mulsims feel that these cartoons have been published to antagonise muslims, and to provoke the extremists into the actiopns we are seeing today.

And the point I've been trying to make is Christians have had to put up with things like that for years. It's not right, but perhaps a little thick-skin is needed.

10-02-2006, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

"i would kill my own children if i had to protect mohammad he means more to me then my children and if i had to i would "

Lovely...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

and this guy is not even fanatical.

Eh, by my definition, the statement above makes him fanatical.

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken

Does that prohibit images of Jesus too then? If so, why aren't they complaining (for want of a better word) about images like the ones returned from a Google image search like
http://images.google.co.uk/images?so...ol&sa=N&tab=wi

Because then they'd have to admit that their hatred of all thing christian/jewish is actually in direct conflict with Islam. Hypocrites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken

Perhaps the Christians should rise up and stone to death the authors of such images

No. Because that kind of reaction is just insane.

I see it like this: An all-powerful God isn't going to get troubled by a few pictures. Furthermore, the allmighty should be more than capable of looking out for himself. The insult is in believing that God is so fragile that a picture could do any harm.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 10-02-2006, 10:23

Russ, I agree with what you say about thick skinnedness is required. The thing is in the UK anyway, it has been a very small minority(maybe under 200) that marched with offensive placards and chants the other week. As for the march planned for, is it tomorrow or the following week?, I do know that the organisers are requesting a peaceful demonstration. However the reality is that some idiots will do their best to hijack the good intentions of the majority of demonstrators and we will see what happens. What I find a bit sad is that there are many views on here which assume that all mulsims are like that. I honestly dont see how anyone can draw that conclusion from what you've seen so far, and feel its only just said out of stupidity or some sort of bigotted outlook

Nugget · 10-02-2006, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

The reason this country is bending over backward to appease muslims is because Blair wants the muslim vote.

Trouble is it is a double edged sword: Blair sucks up to muslims, muslims join Labour, muslims get elected in ever more muslim wards, pass more pro muslim laws, muslim flag over Westminster.

So you believe that, if another party was in power, they wouldn't want the Muslim vote?

IMO, and as I've said before, what makes the UK such a good place to live is the fact that we are multi-cultural - any number of people from differing cultures have settled here and, as a result, have been integrated into our communitys and culture, making the UK a more rounded society.

I agree that there is a higher likelihood of Muslims being elected in areas where there is a higher proportion of Muslim voters - however, I don't agree that there would be an increase in 'pro-Muslim' laws (whatever the hell they are!). Don't forget that a large amount of Muslims still live in the poorer areas of the country - any law that is passed that would benefit them would also benefit the poorer sections of the non-Muslim communitys.

herbert clinker · 10-02-2006, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget

So you believe that, if another party was in power, they wouldn't want the Muslim vote?

IMO, and as I've said before, what makes the UK such a good place to live is the fact that we are multi-cultural - any number of people from differing cultures have settled here and, as a result, have been integrated into our communitys and culture, making the UK a more rounded society.

I agree that there is a higher likelihood of Muslims being elected in areas where there is a higher proportion of Muslim voters - however, I don't agree that there would be an increase in 'pro-Muslim' laws (whatever the hell they are!). Don't forget that a large amount of Muslims still live in the poorer areas of the country - any law that is passed that would benefit them would also benefit the poorer sections of the non-Muslim communitys.

crap.

basa · 10-02-2006, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I still think a lot of people are missing the point as to why this has offended muslims around the world. Please note that before I try and explain again I donot agree with the violent demonstrations that have taken place and the nature of the placards on display be it in the UK or the rest of the world. Addionally groups including the MCB and other representative bodies have stated that such demonstrations are against the guidelines of Islam, and even said that the police should have done more to deal with the placard bearers.

Right.... as a muslim the Prophet is very dear to me. However if someone choses to depict the Prophet in a picture/painting/cartoon based on a description of him that they've read in a Hadith, or other narration then to me thats fine. After all I can't stop you doing that, and if there is any punishment to be derived from you doing so thats between you and God/Allah whatever you want to call Him. However when someone draws a cartoon that makes a mockery of the characteristics of what we as muslims, belkieve to be the most important man ever for us muslims, a man with the most perfect characteristics and traits, then that is where I get offended. I don't think there was any need for that, except to cause offence. Furtehr more to characterise the Prophet as a bomb in a turban wearing person does nothing to promote any good relations between non muslims and muslims in the world today. Many mulsims feel that these cartoons have been published to antagonise muslims, and to provoke the extremists into the actiopns we are seeing today.

For those who say that if we dont like Freedom of speech we should go back to the middle east or 'our own countries' well for a lot of muslims in the UK today Britain is where they're from. Its not that we dont like freedom of speech or dont agree with it, but that we feel it should be used with a bit of respect.

Unfortunately muhammed with a bomb is the way a large proportion of the west percieve muslims, especially after 9/11, 7/7 etc, etc, etc. and current goings on serve only to confirm that view.

I think you may be right that they were published to cause offence. Maybe that would be in retaliation to the offence caused by 9/11, 7/7, etc, etc, etc, the only difference is that cartoons don't kill people, leave children with no mothers and fathers, that sort of thing !!

Thing is that Islam is always described as a peaceful faith, but I have never ever seen a march or other organised event by muslims in support of that view but they can get a violent rabble together in hours to condemn the west.

Respect is earned not bullied.

Ramrod · 10-02-2006, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

However when someone draws a cartoon that makes a mockery of the characteristics of what we as muslims, belkieve to be the most important man ever for us muslims, a man with the most perfect characteristics and traits, then that is where I get offended. I don't think there was any need for that, except to cause offence.

The thing is that if Muslims hadn't acted as depicted in the cartoons then the cartoons wouldn't/couldn't exist. The cartoons are a mirror held up to reflect satirically the actions of Muslims.

Quote:

For those who say that if we dont like Freedom of speech we should go back to the middle east or 'our own countries' well for a lot of muslims in the UK today Britain is where they're from. Its not that we dont like freedom of speech or dont agree with it, but that we feel it should be used with a bit of respect.

Perhaps non-muslims in the west would stop printing cartoons about Muslims/Mohamed if Muslims stopped suicide bombing etc....the cartoons are a reaction to past events.

Nugget · 10-02-2006, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbert clinker

crap.

Good to see you're still able to put a well-reasoned argument forward then

10-02-2006, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaf_laandon_mo

<snip>Further more to characterise the Prophet as a bomb in a turban wearing person does nothing to promote any good relations between non muslims and muslims in the world today. Many muslims feel that these cartoons have been published to antagonise muslims

I agree the imagery is insensitive in the particular case of representing the Prophet in such a way, but if Muslims stopped using the 'suicide bomb' as a tactic, perhaps there would be more tolerance & understanding, and it wouldn't have arisen.

Many westerners feel antagonised by being blown up by fanatics and do not understand how killing ones fellow man is justified, while a drawing is not.