Should they be published in the UK?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Eh? Since when? What branch of christianity are you speaking on behalf of?

Those that believe in the teachings of Christ, as he does not really appear in the Old Testament much does he

You are all to quick for me, I agree that it has meaning, just not to me

Originally Posted by Jon M

Before I get dragged further into this... please can we get back on topic.

I think it's a bit late to suggest dragging this back to the original post.

Much as the situation has changed since then, so has the focus of discussion - the original topic is the context of the current discussion, and as such (and as OP) I believe we are still (mostly) on-topic.

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Those that believe in the teachings of Christ, as he does not really appear in the Old Testament much does he

I refer you to the answer previously supplied by Jon M.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Actually, serious question, but doesn't the Bible say something about 'worshipping no other God but me'?

It does, which makes sense if you are going to follow a religion, but nowhere in the bible does it say that Christianity is the only permissible religion on this planet. The Koran does actually say this. In fact the Old Testament part of the Bible is actually shared between Christianity/Catholism and Torah in Judaism, so...

The best way to highlight the difference in what I am saying is imagining religions as football teams, and all religions on this planet are in a league. Christanity is saying "If you want to support us, you can't support anyone else". That's fine. 1 team/religion for 1 person. Islam however, is saying that their the only team allowed to exist in the league.

It would be a bit funny if someone supported two religions & Gods simulataneously. In fact, I want to do that. Edge my bets for when the time comes

[Jon M]

Interesting point there Punky,

I'm not sure moderate Muslims would ascribe to that point of view to the letter though... we used to have an Iranian Muslim family that were perfectly happy to join in with our church services. Granted they may not have understood a lot of the implications of what was said to them there, but they certainly had an inclusive attitude to other faiths.
Likewise with a turkish girl who is a muslim and comes to our church, she regularly discusses and debates with us over whether we all worship one God or not.

[Nugget]

to punky, Jon M and SWW for answering my question - it was an honest one, you know

Originally Posted by punky

In fact the Old Testament part of the Bible is actually shared between Christianity/Catholism and Torah in Judaism, so...

I think you'll find it's also shared by Islam...

[punky]

Originally Posted by Jon M

Interesting point there Punky,

I'm not sure moderate Muslims would ascribe to that point of view to the letter though... we used to have an Iranian Muslim family that were perfectly happy to join in with our church services. Granted they may not have understood a lot of the implications of what was said to them there, but they certainly had an inclusive attitude to other faiths.
Likewise with a turkish girl who is a muslim and comes to our church, she regularly discusses and debates with us over whether we all worship one God or not.

Indeed. I wasn't really saying how many, and which Muslims really ascribe to the view, only that the view exists in the Koran, and that some (the most famous being that Mahajaroon group, know allegedly dunfunct, thankfully) want to enforce that view.

I too know Muslims that embrace other religions, which goes further than merely allowing them to co-exist.

The fact that it exists in the Koran isn't a problem so much, but that some people will embrace it. In books so old they will reflect the time they were written in which a some things are incompatible with attitudes today.

Edit: The best example, is here

It should also be noted that this has been on the Internet for years, no Christians have ever called for anyone to be beheaded because of it, etc...

[NitroNutter]

As someone has mentioned football hooligans, I am wondering how many say villa fans would get into the grounds at the next match if they all wore balaclavas, let alone waving placards saying "death to whoever" ?

Its not a case of tarring them all with the same brush, most are well aware theres more moderates and non radical activists than activists, however some who claim to be moderate, may well suddenly not be moderate if the need arises, and some will just quietly enjoy the show, while others will be as they say moderate in reality, but if these want a peaceful life here then they are going to have show themselves to stand out from the radicals one way or another else the inevitable will happen if the radicals continue with the current course.

Yes Allah maywell mean the word "God" but in most radicals eyes Allah is not the same God as any other faiths God, which is where the one religion only theme comes from, there is no other God but Allah and anything else is well fake to be nice about it.

Aparently the Seihks are up in arms over it all aswell, they are getting attacked by muslims and getting some backlash aswell and so are well and truly in the crossfire it seems.

When 7/7 happened it was Saudi I think said, we have got to stop permitting all these extremists in, many of them are highly dangerous criminals who are just as radical in their own country, hence why if they get caught and get away they are often on the way for asylum somewhere. The real problem is as we dont run these other coutries, we cannot tell wether an asylumn seeker is a radical extremist or an oppressed person running in fear for their lives, the two are indeed very close.

And for those who think none of them want to have anything else but a christian running britain, think again as several big UK Arab business websites have been took down and some likely still going for wanting precisly the opposite, which is the flag of Islam over #10 And do not misread this as my saying all islam wants it because I did not even infer that.

[danielf]

I just heard about this site:

http://www.sorrynorwaydenmark.com/

A good initiative imo

[Orior]

The wee guy on my left shoulder says:
Dont publish and move on and discuss more important things like Chantelle and Preston.

The wee guy on my right shoulder says:
The cartoons should be published and then shoved down the throat of every immigrant who is living off the generosity of the peoples of this land.

[Xaccers]

Ok, if we ignore that the very earliest hebrews worshipped several gods, and concentrate on the one that Abraham picked, we get yaweh, who the jews don't name, the christians call god, and the muslims call allah.
They are all one and the same deity, or at least they're all from the same original diety.
Hebrews had the Torah, their book of g-d's laws etc describing how to live, stay healthy etc.
If your mother was a Jew, then you are a Jew, one of the "chosen" by g-d.
Someone couldn't convert.

Then Rabbi Joshua came along (aka Jesus to the Greeks and Isa to the muslims) and updated the Jewish faith with new teachings which were less day to day rules and more happy lifestyle rules which anyone could follow.
It also introduced the idea of conversion, where rather than one specific group being chosen, anyone could be chosen if they chose to live a certain way.
The teachings of Joshua were written down many years after he gave them, and so it is a matter of faith to believe they are accurate. This is made harder for those without faith because several hundred years after Joshua died, the bible pretty much as we know it today, was written, where men decided what should be included, and what should be destroyed.
They also ended the bible stating that no more should be added, thus ensuring that what they believed would be locked in place forever.

About 5 hundred years after Joshua, Mohammed came along, claiming to have been visited by the angel Gabriel with a new updated set of rules, the Koran (actually an old set of rules supposedly the true religion set up in Mecca by Abraham and Ishmael, however Psalm 83 states that the Ishmaelites are against the true god).
At the time, the bedouin had a mainly shamonic belief system, worshiping elements and dust devils etc, however they were aware of Joshua's teachings, although not in the same way as followers of the early church knew them via the bible.
The Koran comes after the teachings of Joshua, and recognises the previous prophets of the god of Abraham, just as the Bible does.
It also recognises that Jews and Christians are followers of Allah, in their own way and as such should be protected as brothers.

Unlike christianity, which started out as a very jewish sect, and didn't seperate until many years after Joshua died, when the jews revolted against the Romans after decreing someone else (I can't remember his name) as the messiah, Islam comes through Ishmael, the son who Abraham expelled into the desert with his mother to die.
Allah lead Ishmael to an oaisis, thus sparing his life, and creating the Ishmaelites.

[punky]

Interesting...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...703501,00.html

Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today.

The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.

...

Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Ok, if we ignore <snip>

Your infidel summary is offensive to my faith, I reserve the right to visit Leighton Buzzard and tear you limb from limb ...

Darned clever, the way you worked it out though. Goodness knows why all the millions who lived and died as Jews/Christians/Muslims didn't see it. If only we all had your clarity of thought and quasi-divine viewpoint. Have you ever heard of John Hick by any chance?

In all seriousness this is quite off topic. Can we get back to the topic of cartoons, satire and protest please.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Your infidel summary is offensive to my faith, I reserve the right to visit Leighton Buzzard and tear you limb from limb ...

Darned clever, the way you worked it out though. Goodness knows why all the millions who lived and died as Jews/Christians/Muslims didn't see it. If only we all had your clarity of thought and quasi-divine viewpoint. Have you ever heard of John Hick by any chance?

In all seriousness this is quite off topic. Can we get back to the topic of cartoons, satire and protest please.

I was just showing how the three religions are linked as many people don't know.
For instance, a lot of people don't know that Islam acknowledges Isa as the messiah, or that Islam acknowledges jews and christians as "the chosen ones" long with muslims.

Perhaps it is easier for someone to see the links if they are able to take a step back and look at it from the outside.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I was just showing how the three religions are linked as many people don't know.
For instance, a lot of people don't know that Islam acknowledges Isa as the messiah, or that Islam acknowledges jews and christians as "the chosen ones" long with muslims.

I know ... whilst generously lacing your illustration with a lot of sub-Dan Brown hokum.

Anyway, you know I'll climb into the ring with you on this subject any time. Just not in this thread.

Back to the Muslim moral outrage please.