smoking and the pub

[Salu]

What about the rights of the cigarette?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Salu

What about the rights of the cigarette?

Depends whether it's a human cigarette, surely?

[Salu]

I really hope this brings a total ban. I think this chap sums up why I feel like I do about smoking. He is a paramedic and blogs.

Why I Hate Smoking Parents
by Reynolds on Sat 31 Dec 2005 12:48 PM GMT
From my nursing days †“ a reason why I hate people who smoke around children

Eight year old girls donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t look like they are sleeping when they are dead. At least not after over an hour of trying to save her life from an ultimately fatal asthma attack.

We were all distressed, she had been gasping for breath when the ambulance crew had †˜bluedâà ¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€Š¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢ her straight into resus. Asthma nebulisers hadnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t worked, and all you could fixate on was her chest desperately trying to pull air into her lungs.

So she died, a frightening and painful death.

The doctor and I went to tell her parents. They were in the relatives room, I could barely see them as I walked in, the clouds of smoke filled the air.

They cried, of course they cried.

Then they went outside and have a cigarette.

Then they came back inside the resus room and sat with her body.

The father lit up another cigarette.



This is why I hate asthma, this is why I hate people who smoke when they are pregnant, this is why I hate people who smoke around children. Kill yourself if you want to, but donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t kill your kids.

This is why I hate people who smoke around their asthmatic children or, if I mention that smoking aggravates asthma, they send them in their nightclothes to stand in sub-zero temperatures.

There are jobs that haunt you. This was one of them. Try calming down an eight year old girl who is dying in front of you because they canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t breathe. Then try and forget about it. I did a cot death once, beside the cot was a full ashtray. Sure the parents are punished by the death of their child. But it doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t help the childââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚¦

As I typed this I realised that I was clenching my teeth.

Originally Posted by Salu

I really hope this brings a total ban. I think this chap sums up why I feel like I do about smoking. He is a paramedic and blogs.

[Salu]

I see this type of thing regularly. The lack of the appreciation of reality and lack of common sense.

Originally Posted by Salu

I really hope this brings a total ban. I think this chap sums up why I feel like I do about smoking. He is a paramedic and blogs.

Touching no doubt, smoking is bad.

However its not just snoking that affects asthma in adults as well as children so lets not pretend it is huh?

Lets not preach to others when the very core of our civilisation, industry and the internal combustion engine, can cause as much if not more damage than a cigarette.

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

I live in a heavily industrialised area, my parents both smoked, my mother longer than my father, they have both now quit. I smoke, and yet I can see no physical problems with myself. Doesnt mean its ok to smoke I understand that, but some people are more suseptible than others.

And yet we have children, many of whom live in smoke free houses, in the countryside and suffer from asthma, isnt it about time we looked for other causes other then blaming the cigarette for all childhood illnesses such as asthma?

Asthma was a lot more common when I was gorwing up than it is now, I know of only 2 children who suffer from it, yet at school most kids carried an inhaler.

I know I sound like I am defending smoking I'm not, but lets just lay of it a little bit huh? Its not solely to blame for the illnesses in our kids.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Well with the definite risks of passive smoking I for one hope this comes off.A total ban will save lives or in the least improve the health of say non smokers who work in a pub.I don't mind smokers but I do mind them smoking near my daughter.Most reasonable smokers will accept the dangers of passive smoking and any reasonable person will not want to put others at risk

I cant see it working though - like fox hunting I suspect there will be mass civil disobendience in some more working class boozers. I think phasing it in by a partial ban followed by a full ban when medical evidence proves it has saved lives might have been easier.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Touching no doubt, smoking is bad.

However its not just snoking that affects asthma in adults as well as children so lets not pretend it is huh?

Lets not preach to others when the very core of our civilisation, industry and the internal combustion engine, can cause as much if not more damage than a cigarette.

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

I live in a heavily industrialised area, my parents both smoked, my mother longer than my father, they have both now quit. I smoke, and yet I can see no physical problems with myself. Doesnt mean its ok to smoke I understand that, but some people are more suseptible than others.

And yet we have children, many of whom live in smoke free houses, in the countryside and suffer from asthma, isnt it about time we looked for other causes other then blaming the cigarette for all childhood illnesses such as asthma?

Asthma was a lot more common when I was gorwing up than it is now, I know of only 2 children who suffer from it, yet at school most kids carried an inhaler.

I know I sound like I am defending smoking I'm not, but lets just lay of it a little bit huh? Its not solely to blame for the illnesses in our kids.

you got plenty of time to get caught by something caused by smoking,do not be apathetic to the fact you can shift 900 litres of air, your only young and do not know what might happen.
Passive smoking kills fact
Most of the chemicals in a cigarette are actually exhausted into the environment and those in close proximity probably get poisoned more than the smoker (by poisoning i mean toxins not the obvious damage hot smoke does to capillaries etc)

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

I live in a heavily industrialised area, my parents both smoked, my mother longer than my father, they have both now quit. I smoke, and yet I can see no physical problems with myself. Doesnt mean its ok to smoke I understand that, but some people are more suseptible than others.

yeah and my mates dad was a smoker all his life - something like 40 a day - he died after the docs discovered a 'dark cloud' in his lung - where the cancer showed on the x-ray. I'd suggest a gym PEF reading isn't enough to check the current quality of your lungs - dont kid yourself that you aren't doing damage when you smoke especially that comment 'so much for smoking affecting the lungs' - I believe you aren't superman and therefore if you put smoke in your lungs eventually one day you will regret it.

http://www.lunguk.org/smoking-and-your-lungs.asp

[Salu]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Touching no doubt, smoking is bad.

However its not just snoking that affects asthma in adults as well as children so lets not pretend it is huh?

Lets not preach to others when the very core of our civilisation, industry and the internal combustion engine, can cause as much if not more damage than a cigarette.

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

I live in a heavily industrialised area, my parents both smoked, my mother longer than my father, they have both now quit. I smoke, and yet I can see no physical problems with myself. Doesnt mean its ok to smoke I understand that, but some people are more suseptible than others.

And yet we have children, many of whom live in smoke free houses, in the countryside and suffer from asthma, isnt it about time we looked for other causes other then blaming the cigarette for all childhood illnesses such as asthma?

Asthma was a lot more common when I was gorwing up than it is now, I know of only 2 children who suffer from it, yet at school most kids carried an inhaler.

I know I sound like I am defending smoking I'm not, but lets just lay of it a little bit huh? Its not solely to blame for the illnesses in our kids.

No, let's NOT lay off smoking. Just because there are other contributing factors to asthma does not mean I should stop warning people about the dangers of it.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

However its not just snoking that affects asthma in adults as well as children so lets not pretend it is huh?

I never was "pretending" it was. Of course there are other things that cause and worsen the condition.

However not smoking is just plain common sense when you do have asthma.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Asthma was a lot more common when I was gorwing up than it is now, I know of only 2 children who suffer from it, yet at school most kids carried an inhaler.

You appear to contradict yourself here.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

I know I sound like I am defending smoking I'm not, but lets just lay of it a little bit huh? Its not solely to blame for the illnesses in our kids.

What is the benefit of "laying off it". It's clear that there are some parents who have no concept of the damage it can do or are seriously deluded or dumb. I feel the need for evangelism is great.

[etccarmageddon]

timewarrior, here's the Forest pro smoking propoganda site

http://www.forestonline.org/output/Page297.asp

have a look around and see if you can find anything that supports your comment re 'so much for smoking affecting the lungs' - if anyone can find you a get out clause then it'll be them! so if they can't disprove the science then you need to reconsider.

[Salu]

timewarrior2001, I don't know why you should take a one off gym PEFV spirometer reading and conclude that a) smoking ain't affecting your lungs and b) the hundreds of evidence based medical papers that have been produced showing the harmful effects of smoking are pants; but I don't think you are being realistic.

FFS No wonder this place gets people irate,

I suggest you ALL re read my post, not once did i say smoking was not bad for you.
Not once did I say it was perfectly OK to smoke.
Not once did I say I was pro smoking.

Yet you all jumped ot the same conclusion.

I simply stated that a ban on smoking will make little difference to the incidents and deaths from childhood asthma. Mainly because the ban will be in the pub and in public buildings, not spaces. Pretty much like Dublin, where you see hundreds of people smoking in the street, I doubt it has encouraged many people to give up, it simply makes them smoke outside making the buildings and surrounding street look awfull.


Actually read what I said, It was neither pro smoking nor anti smoking, my post was about the what if's the fact that smoking kills, when in reality it should be smoking MAY kill, smoking MAY cause cancer, smoking MAY damage your unborn baby.

I never once said the childs death wasnt due to smoking, I simply pointed out that smoking MAY not have been the contributing factor and someone elses hatred of smoking is not an unbiased oppinion make.

Whilst we all still drive our cars, whilst we all still depend upon industry belching out tons and tons of carbon and god only knows what else into our atmosphere, I am going to class each and every one of you hypocrites.

What do I class myself as? Well as I dont give smokers a hard time, whilst I smoke yet dont around children and try to avoid crowded places when doing so, I certainly wont class myself as a hypocrite.

Maybe I should go round goving non smokers a hardtime, see how they like it.

Perhaps its time to campaign so vigourously against smack heads and all other junkie ****, perhaps we should ban alcohol cos its addictive and causes health problems, where the **** are we going to stop????

[etccarmageddon]

er ok, so you do accept smoking affects your lungs?

YES or NO?

[ian@huth]

Looking at the children who have asthma that I know they all come from non-smoking families. Could it be that living in a too clean environment makes people more susceptible to certain illnesses and diseases? More children these days suffer from respiratory problems although the percentage of people smoking is falling. Is it the case that there are more pollutants in the air from sources other than tobacco smoke that is causing this increase or is it a weakening of the immune system? Smoking will naturally get the blame though as it is the easy target.