smoking and the pub

[clarie]

Originally Posted by SlackDad

I've tried. Patches and everying but I just can't give it up

This debate is becoming as addictive as smoking...

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by clarie

That's fine. But can you suggest to me any such business?

Where a ban on smoking wouldn't affect business? Yep.

Any highstreet shop
Any department store
Basically Clarie, any business where leisure/drink/food retail isn't involved. Not that hard really, is it?

[clarie]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Where a ban on smoking wouldn't affect business? Yep.

Any highstreet shop
Any department store
Basically Clarie, any business where leisure/drink/food retail isn't involved. Not that hard really, is it?

Condescension aside, I wasn't talking about a ban on smoking.....

You said:

Originally Posted by orangebird

then go find another business where they're not bullied into what they do and don't allow on their on premises.

Which is why I said that this might be a difficult task for them if they believe the ban on smoking to be bullying.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by clarie

Condescension aside, I wasn't talking about a ban on smoking.....

You said:

Which is why I said that this might be a difficult task for them if they believe the ban on smoking to be bullying.

And I've just listed a loed of business which bullying such as the smoking ban wouldn't affect. What bit don't you get??

Originally Posted by orangebird

And I've just listed a loed of business which bullying such as the smoking ban wouldn't affect. What bit don't you get??

I don't get the bit where you don't classify working time directives, the minimum wage, heath and safety legislation, consumer rights legislation, &c, &c, &c to be 'bullying' in the same legal sense as smoking legislation will be.

Every business has to comply with a swathe of rules and regulations that tell them what they can and cannot do with their products, their staff and their premises. According this new legislation the special title of 'bullying' looks a bit odd when you view it in context.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by Chris T

They very rarely go with us to a pub for a meal

You take kids into a pub which allows smoking because you can get cheap (crap) food?

[Salu]

Originally Posted by orangebird

And I've just listed a loed of business which bullying such as the smoking ban wouldn't affect. What bit don't you get??

Just because you may be annoyed does not entitle you to be rude. If you are not annoyed then why be rude?

Originally Posted by lippy

You take kids into a pub which allows smoking because you can get cheap (crap) food?

Where did I say that?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I don't get the bit where you don't classify working time directives, the minimum wage, heath and safety legislation, consumer rights legislation, &c, &c, &c to be 'bullying' in the same legal sense as smoking legislation will be.

Every business has to comply with a swathe of rules and regulations that tell them what they can and cannot do with their products, their staff and their premises. According this new legislation the special title of 'bullying' looks a bit odd when you view it in context.

None of what you've listed above Chris will affect the trade/customers you may or may not attract. The smoking ban does. Bloody hell, has everyone had a labotomy today?

[clarie]

Originally Posted by orangebird

And I've just listed a loed of business which bullying such as the smoking ban wouldn't affect. What bit don't you get??

I am not sure why this is so difficult. You said that people would go and find a business where they are not bullied about what they do and don't do on their premises. I asked you to name business of this sort. I am not talking about just the smoking ban. I am referring to what you said about a business where they are not told what they can and can't do on their premises.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Salu

Just because you may be annoyed does not entitle you to be rude. If you are not annoyed then why be rude?

Not sure if annoyed is the right word - exasperated or irritated at peoples deliberate ignorance to suit there own agendas would be more like it. That's why I'm being rude. I think my rudeness is a lot less offensive than some people bloody mindedness tbh.
__________________

Originally Posted by clarie

I am not sure why this is so difficult. You said that people would go and find a business where they are not bullied about what they do and don't do on their premises. I asked you to name business of this sort. I am not talking about just the smoking ban. I am referring to what you said about a business where they are not told what they can and can't do on their premises.

You really take the biscuit. see me answer to Chris T's post. You're back on my ignore list.

[clarie]

Why is OB so rude?

Most people agree passive smoking is bad for your health, I do. So, why shouldn't it be left up to the discretion of the landlord whether he allows smoking in his/her establishment? Surely it is up to the individual whether they use that pub or not. Maybe large signs should be put above the door saying whether smoking is allowed or not - you can then make up your own mind to enter or not. As for the staff, the same should apply, they make the descision to work in a place that accepts smoking or not. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by orangebird

None of what you've listed above Chris will affect the trade/customers you may or may not attract. The smoking ban does. Bloody hell, has everyone had a labotomy today?

Maybe not, but I think to draw a distinction between rules that affect who comes through your front door and rules that do not is entirely artificial, and if I may say so, appears to feature in your argument only because it suits *your* agenda.

The only way in which you can discuss the law as it affects business is to look at all of it, and look at how it affects the whole of the business. Footfall is one small part of an overall business. Minimum wage, for example, affects profit margins. Is this unimportant?

Claire's point (I think), and mine, is that you cannot separate laws on smoking from any other law that affects a business. If you consider smoking legislation to be bullying the proprietor, you must consider all other business law to be bullying the proprietor also. And that undermines your suggestion that a landlord might give up the pub trade and go and find a business where he won't get bullied. No such business exists.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Please stay on topic and avoid debating each others posting styles. Lets comment on the points being raised without unpleasantries.