Marks and Spencer - incompetent web design muppets - Page 4

Pia · 29-10-2005, 23:00

Well if they want our money then that's what they should do.

Like i said, most other companies manage this without a problem.
Why shouldn't M&S?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

There IS a choice of browser, they are catering for the vast majority by writing a site most of the people who load it, will use IE, and the rest will have the knowhow to use IE if FX doesn't work.

How do you know that? And why should they have to?

handyman · 30-10-2005, 00:08

We seem to have overlooked that the op was using a older version of ff and that the newer version worked fine with the site. Ergo the designers could have tried it with ff and found it to work fine. Just the op working with a duff version of ff.

Moral of the storey if he had used ie he would have been fine :P

Pia · 30-10-2005, 00:16

I don't believe that, a lot of people clicked on the links and had the same problem. Me included.

And i am running the latest version of Firefox, as available for download on the main Mozilla site. version 1.0.7.
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And moral of the story- he shouldn't have to use IE for it to be fine. A lot of the web users are using other browsers these days. It's getting to be well known that IE isn't the be all and end all, and companies need to keep up with the times if they want our dosh.

handyman · 30-10-2005, 00:24

Version 1.5 it seems would have worked.
My argument is just that why should it bother him as much. I dont like the shape of porsche cars. I think I would like a car that fast etc but I dont like the shape. Do a buy one and complain no, do I not buy one and complain that they dared make a product that I did not like no. Can I complain that they are too expensive, no because they have taken the time and trouble to design and manufacture something and if i want it I can buy it. Its very simple, companies should not 'have' to make thier products anything hey should be allowed to do what they do and as cusumers we should buy what we want.

Pia · 30-10-2005, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

I dont like the shape of porsche cars. I think I would like a car that fast etc but I dont like the shape. Do a buy one and complain no, do I not buy one and complain that they dared make a product that I did not like no.

How does this even tally with this thread? Chris wanted to buy a cake.
If you want to compare with a porsche, then say you did like the cars, and wanted to buy one, but it was more convenient for you to buy the car online.

Say for arguments sake you aren't very computer literate, and..... "
oops the computer has frozen.... what do i do? There must be a fault, i'll look somewhere else..."
Therefore, the original Porsche dealer loses your money because they couldn't be botheed to make their site accessible to all.
Not the end of the world, but if 10 people all with the same thinking did this, they'd lose a fortune.

However, you still get your Porsche, but it's the dealer (ie M&S) that lose out.

Still, if they (M&S) want to run their business with that sort of thinking then they will lose money.

Then again, no-one said that they do think like you, becasue they have now been informed of the error and have said they are doing something about it.

nffc · 30-10-2005, 00:38

Pia- one thing you've overlooked, is that n00bs won't know what a browser is, let alone want to know about firefox. So, the people using forefox will have the expertise to realise that the site's not been tested in firefox and to test IE... the firefox users in general are the ones aware that IE's easy to pwn and do know a bit about PCs, enough to realise what's going off.

handyman · 30-10-2005, 00:42

But why would someone thats computer illiterate by pass the already installed internet explorer in favour of searching online using internet explorer to find a different browser. What prevents them from using ie in the event that ff could not render a page correctly.

If a browser version crash's yet other versions of the same browser do not, and opera does not crash and ie does not crash either is it the fault of the web designer or the user of the crashing web browser for sticking with it?

Pia · 30-10-2005, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Pia- one thing you've overlooked, is that n00bs won't know what a browser is, let alone want to know about firefox. So, the people using forefox will have the expertise to realise that the site's not been tested in firefox and to test IE... the firefox users in general are the ones aware that IE's easy to pwn and do know a bit about PCs, enough to realise what's going off.

What makes you think everyone who uses firefox has expretise? What about those who use it on a works computer/ friends computer or someone else installed it/recommended it to them so it's all they know.

I imagine this is a lot more than you make out. Last time i checked, you didn't have to be clever to use firefox, or know that it's best to use it.
There are *some* sites where it is best to use IE, but i don't believe that one of these should be a company with the status and size that M&S has.

handyman · 30-10-2005, 00:45

So pia how did you come across ff?

Pia · 30-10-2005, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

If a browser version crash's yet other versions of the same browser do no, and opera does not crash and ie does not crash either is it the fault of the web designer or the user of the crashing web browser for sticking with it?

I read somewhere that Firefox is the 2nd most popular browser with about 8-10% of the market, and Opera only has about 1-3%. So why would you make sure Opera works before Firefox?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

So pia how did you come across ff?

It was recommended on a forum to me, so i thought i'd have a look, and i've stuck with it ever since. As many people do.

nffc · 30-10-2005, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Pia- one thing you've overlooked, is that n00bs won't know what a browser is, let alone want to know about firefox. So, the people using forefox will have the expertise to realise that the site's not been tested in firefox and to test IE... the firefox users in general are the ones aware that IE's easy to pwn and do know a bit about PCs, enough to realise what's going off.

What makes you think everyone who uses firefox has expretise? What about those who use it on a works computer/ friends computer or someone else installed it/recommended it to them so it's all they know.

I imagine this is a lot more than you make out. Last time i checked, you didn't have to be clever to use firefox, or know that it's best to use it.
There are *some* sites where it is best to use IE, but i don't believe that one of these should be a company with the status and size that M&S has.

You miss the point completely.

handyman · 30-10-2005, 00:50

They have made sure ff works, as posted version 1.5 rendered the page fine.
There must be loads of different version of these 'new' browsers. There will be bugs with them. Its possible that you would not want to test on every single one of them.

That aside its definatly a fault of the code as its not complient. But it does only crash some versions of ff and not others. ie and opera work fine.

Pia · 30-10-2005, 00:51

I don't think so, MY point is that M&S should design a site that is accessible to everyone, whether they chose to use IE or FF.

But you are saying they shouldn't have to, and that if we want to buy then we should go their way about it. At least that what i've read.

Stores like this are providing US a service, not the other way around.

handyman · 30-10-2005, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

I don't think so, MY point is that M&S should design a site that is accessible to everyone, whether they chose to use IE or FF.

Why should they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

But you are saying they shouldn't have to,

yes, they paid for the product , its up to you wether or not your software works correctly, 85% of people will not have a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

Stores like this are providing US a service, not the other way around.

Wrong, stores are offering a service, nothing in the law states that m and s 'have' to provide you access to thier site to buy cake.

And if 8% of the people cant then tough really, They chose to use the different browser in the first place. You cannot blame m and s for enabling access to thier product to the majority.
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Or to put it another way. When I had my own shop a idiot came in drunk and started giving me hassle so I refused to serve him. He started giving me all the 'I have to serve him rubbish', lol.

I did not have to serve him as the sign clearly stated above the counter'

'This is not burger king, you get it my way or you don't get the damned thing'

I'm all about helping people, I've spent many a wee hour on this very forum assisting people (even you). But I'll defend any organisations right to sell products on thier terms. Customers should have control over what they buy. Its not really the organisations fault not to educate them on browser interoprability (sp).

Nikko · 30-10-2005, 01:30

You can't have your cake and eat IT