Victory for Common Sense

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Has this happened? Where?

I don't have any documented cases, and I don't have to produce any either for this discussion.

Originally Posted by me283

I fully agree Pierre. It all seems such common sense, but then a lot of common sense has been thrown out of the window. Maybe a little more discipline in schools will serve children well in later life?

Originally Posted by BBKing

Has this happened? Where?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/4080293.stm

Originally Posted by Pierre

Define restrain.

If you "restrained" your 12yr old and for arguments sake left a bruise on their arm or leg. Then said 12 yr old went to the police and made a complaint that their father had assaulted them and they bruises to prove it.

You'd be straight down the nick.

In reality you are not allowed to lay your hands them.

Kids are protected by assault laws just like anyone else. There's restraint and there's restraint. Some people's idea of discipline seems to rest solely with corporal punishment; there are other ways. I talki to mine, withold things that sort of caper. Done me all right so far (fingers crossed!)
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Originally Posted by Chris T

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/4080293.stm

Common assault. Same law to protect kids as anyone else.

Originally Posted by andyl

Common assault. Same law to protect kids as anyone else.

Which was never properly tested in court because, having been banned from living at home for six months, the poor bloke pled guilty just to get the nightmare over with.

It would be remarkably easy for a single smack on the backside to cause a small child's feet to leave the ground. They don't weigh very much. And I think the fact that it was a *single* smack, and not a good thrashing, should not be overlooked.

Perhaps if bail conditions had not been so draconian, the man might have felt more able to plead his case. We will never know.

[TigaSefi]

[Mod Edit (Chris T)]: Personal, off topic flaming insult removed.

Please DON'T. That was absolutely uncalled for.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by andyl

There's restraint and there's restraint

Exactly, is your definition the same as the courts. If you lay your hands on somebody, forcebly grip or grab them, causing harm - That is assault.

Now before we veer off on tangent.

My point was that Teachers will be given the power to use reasonable force to restrain a child in class. The level of restraint could be taken assault. But teachers wont be prosecuted for it.

However if a parent used the same level as force they could be.

Which was the meaning of that line in my opening post

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Define restrain.

If you "restrained" your 12yr old and for arguments sake left a bruise on their arm or leg. Then said 12 yr old went to the police and made a complaint that their father had assaulted them and they bruises to prove it.

You'd be straight down the nick.

In reality you are not allowed to lay your hands them.

Cites?
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ADDENDUM:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't have any documented cases, and I don't have to produce any either for this discussion.

Ah. So it's an opinion.

Please don't present it as a fact then.

Originally Posted by Graham

Cites?
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ADDENDUM:



Ah. So it's an opinion.

Please don't present it as a fact then.

I have posted an example of a father being prosecuted for assault after smacking his child in public. Here's the link again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/4080293.stm

My concern is that he was effectively compelled to plead guilty as the bail conditions imposed on him were draconian.

[TigaSefi]

Originally Posted by Graham

Cites?
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ADDENDUM:



Ah. So it's an opinion.

Please don't present it as a fact then.

Someone just made it a fact a few post above your's.

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

Someone just made it a fact a few post above your's.

And the charge was common assault. Is anyone suggesting children shouldn't be protected from assault in the same way that adults are?

[basa]

I restrain mine by removing their internet access. Simple and works like a dream !

Originally Posted by basa

I restrain mine by removing their internet access. Simple and works like a dream !

Like your style!

Originally Posted by andyl

And the charge was common assault. Is anyone suggesting children shouldn't be protected from assault in the same way that adults are?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I think anyone is suggesting that this may not have been common assault, that the case was never aired in court because the defendant pleaded guilty, and that he did so due to extreme bail conditions pursued by social services that were far in excess of the charge.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Graham

Ah. So it's an opinion.

Please don't present it as a fact then.

Sorry didn't realise I had to qualify all of my statements with IMO or :fact:

Sorry, I thought we were having a discussion

I note you'd rather address the issue of whether I was expressing opinion rather than fact (when I thought it was fairly obvious it was opinion) that address the that post or subsequent post.

Originally Posted by pierre

Exactly, is your definition the same as the courts. If you lay your hands on somebody, forcebly grip or grab them, causing harm - That is assault.

Now before we veer off on tangent.

My point was that Teachers will be given the power to use reasonable force to restrain a child in class. The level of restraint could be taken assault. But teachers wont be prosecuted for it.

However if a parent used the same level as force they could be.

Which was the meaning of that line in my opening post