What do we think of the UK?

[basa]

Originally Posted by punky

Long story. I was due to follow them, but was incorrectly advised by the company we employed for immigration advice, they said I could remain in the UK and finish my uni education. My father's application took too long and I turned 21 before he got his green card. End result, no end of agro for me. I am still fighting, but it could well take years to sort out.

As I said, I know where my bread is buttered. My wages go so far out there. The lifestyle I lead when I visit far outstrips my lifestyle here. Its almost heartbreaking watching my family prosper and enjoy life so much out there. When I go out there, I can afford to tip bartenders, that's unthinkable here! We'll walk a mile or two out of our way to save 30p on a pint.

Yikes I feel for you punky ! Just had a (very) quick look at a few USA Immigration sites and it does seem if you're over 21 family ties are not valid and you need exceptional qualifications or skills to qualify for a green card. Even the EB-3 Visa requires a permanent job offer in a skill where there are insufficient US workers !! Is there no 'work to residence' policy like Canada, Oz and NZ ??

Originally Posted by punky

Not solely, the economy and tax on alcohol plays a big part in it. Anyway, all service staff have to earn minimum wage, so in the extremely unlikely event their tips don't cover the difference, then the employer will have to cover the difference. I know service industry staff out there, and they do very well out there tips. They can tend 12 tables at a time. A low average would be $5 per table, tips, so thats $60 per hour at peak times. Tips are taxable though. In quieter times, they'll still earn minimum wage.

The current minimum wage in the USA is $5.15 - at today's exchange rate that's roughly £2.92 per hour. Even before minimum wage legislation was introduced in the UK there were very few people earning anything like that low a rate.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm

And for bartenders (and anyone else who earns tips) the minimum wage is a criminal $2.13 (£1.21) . I would say it's not so much the case that you can afford to tip the bartender; you are morally obliged to do so! I certainly didn't realise it was this bad in the US until I read up on it just now and it will certainly change the way I treat waiting staff next time I am over there.

[punky]

Originally Posted by basa

Yikes I feel for you punky ! Just had a (very) quick look at a few USA Immigration sites and it does seem if you're over 21 family ties are not valid and you need exceptional qualifications or skills to qualify for a green card. Even the EB-3 Visa requires a permanent job offer in a skill where there are insufficient US workers !! Is there no 'work to residence' policy like Canada, Oz and NZ ??

Yeah, that's how my dad went through under the L visa. I tried but got messed up as well, due to my application getting lost, and the the approval notice expiring.

If you are over 21 and unmarried, then you can immigrate via your family, it just takes time. If you are married then I think your family have to become citizens for you to be eligible.

Its just been one long nightmare for me, but for the rest of my family, its been suprisingly easy. My older brother was over 21 when my dad applied so he applied on his own, and had his green card in a year and a half.
__________________

Originally Posted by Chris T

The current minimum wage in the USA is $5.15 - at today's exchange rate that's roughly £2.92 per hour.

Don't forget though, everything else is cheaper (like the exchange rate), so it all comes down in line. Anyway, that's the federal rate, states are allowed to up that, and do... Florida's MW is $6.15

Originally Posted by punky

Don't forget though, everything else is cheaper (like the exchange rate), so it all comes down in line. Anyway, that's the federal rate, states are allowed to up that, and do... Florida's MW is $6.15

It's cheaper because the employers get away with paying peanuts!!! And Florida is hardly being very generous, an extra dollar is worth about 57p. And if you are in a job where you can expect to get tips, the rate is even worse - please see my edited and extended post above.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Chris T

The current minimum wage in the USA is $5.15 - at today's exchange rate that's roughly £2.92 per hour. Even before minimum wage legislation was introduced in the UK there were very few people earning anything like that low a rate.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm

And for bartenders (and anyone else who earns tips) the minimum wage is a criminal $2.13 (£1.21) . I would say it's not so much the case that you can afford to tip the bartender; you are morally obliged to do so! I certainly didn't realise it was this bad in the US until I read up on it just now and it will certainly change the way I treat waiting staff next time I am over there.

Yes, but those dollars go a long, long way over there...

[punky]

Originally Posted by Chris T

And for bartenders (and anyone else who earns tips) the minimum wage is a criminal $2.13 (£1.21) .

No, it isn't. That is only if the tips exceed the federal minimum wage of $5.15. Look at this quote from the link you provided:

An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

I.e. no tipped employee will ever take home less than $5.15 an hour. The direct minimum wage can be set at 1c an hour, but if the tips don't exceed the federal minimum wage, then the employer will have to make up the difference of $5.14. Either way, service industry staff are garanteed at least $5.15 per hour for their work, and times when employers have to make up the difference are extremely few and far between.

You can't just say they earn £2.92, how terrible... everything else is cheaper so they are still 'richer'. A 2L bottle of Coca-cola (branded) is 89c... that's 52p, compared with the £1.25 at least you pay here. Like I said, my younger brother earns less than me, but the money goes much further. Its the ecomomy.

Originally Posted by punky

No, it isn't. That is only if the tips exceed the federal minimum wage of $5.15. Look at this quote from the link you provided:



I.e. no tipped employee will ever take home less than $5.15 an hour. The direct minimum wage can be set at 1c an hour, but if the tips don't exceed the federal minimum wage, then the employer will have to make up the difference of $5.14. Either way, service industry staff are garanteed at least $5.15 per hour for their work, and times when employers have to make up the difference are extremely few and far between.

You can't just say they earn £2.92, how terrible... everything else is cheaper so they are still 'richer'. A 2L bottle of Coca-cola (branded) is 89c... that's 52p, compared with the £1.25 at least you pay here. Like I said, my younger brother earns less than me, but the money goes much further. Its the ecomomy.

I did read the page I quoted. I did not say that bartenders go home with next to no money in their pockets, I was pointing out that the bartender's employer is obliged only to pay him a very small amount, because the bartender can make a decent amount from tips. So, because the customers are effectively paying the bartender his wages directly, the wage bill to the business is low, therefore they can charge less for their goods, hence you go to a bar, get your drinks, realise it's really cheap and then feel flush enough to give a generous tip.

As for the coca cola ... I don't imagine the people who work in the factory that makes it get tips. I don't suppose the shelf stackers down at Wal Mart do either. And if they take home anything like as little as £2.92 per hour, it's no wonder a 2l bottle is so cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I know the US economy is the world's biggest and I know Americans are comparitively richer - but having been over there and seen how it works, I do think it's easy for an outsider to overestimate the difference.

Incidentally ... average annual holiday entitlement in the US is something like 2 weeks, excluding public holidays. I get five weeks, plus extra for long service. A colleague of mine who went to work at our office over there had to fight to retain the holiday allowance she had over here and to this day has to keep very quiet about it as she has so many more days off than everyone she now works with. I value my time and frankly I'm prepared to stay here, earn less, and have a life outside the office.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I did read the page I quoted. I did not say that bartenders go home with next to no money in their pockets, I was pointing out that the bartender's employer is obliged only to pay him a very small amount, because the bartender can make a decent amount from tips. So, because the customers are effectively paying the bartender his wages directly, the wage bill to the business is low, therefore they can charge less for their goods, hence you go to a bar, get your drinks, realise it's really cheap and then feel flush enough to give a generous tip.

As for the coca cola ... I don't imagine the people who work in the factory that makes it get tips. I don't suppose the shelf stackers down at Wal Mart do either. And if they take home anything like as little as £2.92 per hour, it's no wonder a 2l bottle is so cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I know the US economy is the world's biggest and I know Americans are comparitively richer - but having been over there and seen how it works, I do think it's easy for an outsider to overestimate the difference.

Incidentally ... average annual holiday entitlement in the US is something like 2 weeks, excluding public holidays. I get five weeks, plus extra for log service. A colleague of mine who went to work at our office over there had to fight to retain the holiday allowance she had over here and to this day has to keep very quiet about it as she has so many more days off than everyone she now works with. I value my time and frankly I'm prepared to stay here, earn less, and have a life outside the office.

The converse view would be to say: I work in the UK and earn loads more; of course, everything else costs lots more, and I can't buy nearly as much, but at least I get it in the first place!

People may earn less over there, but their houses cost less to rent/buy, cars cost less, fuel costs less, food costs less, clothes cost less... etc etc The pay is merely a factor.

[handyman]

As punky said their money goes way further, homes are cheaper fuel is 35p a litre. All electronics stuff is cheaper.

But apples for apples you can live better off in the states than here.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I did read the page I quoted. I did not say that bartenders go home with next to no money in their pockets, I was pointing out that the bartender's employer is obliged only to pay him a very small amount, because the bartender can make a decent amount from tips.

I am sorry I am misunderstood what you were saying. My apologies.

You jumped on the bartender thing, but its one small piece of life out there. Everything is much cheaper, and the economy and lifestyle is such that evening earning less is 'earning more'. In fact alcohol in public is actually relatively expensive out there, to discourage overdrinking. I have very extensive knowlege of both countries, and I know where I am better off.

[Gareth]

Anyone know if Canada is as compartively cheap as the US is considered to be?

[punky]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Anyone know if Canada is as compartively cheap as the US is considered to be?

A little more expensive, not much. I have been to Toronto twice. Of course visitors are able to claim the tax back, but even if you don't Canada is still much cheaper than the UK.

[Gareth]

Cheers, Punky.

[Salu]

...gone a little

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by punky

In fact alcohol in public is actually relatively expensive out there, to discourage overdrinking. I have very extensive knowlege of both countries, and I know where I am better off.

I would say the opposite, especially when drinking spirits, bars often do not have optic measures, so you end up with a far healthier measure in your glass.