new spam filter options

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

We are lucky that Maverick started this thread otherwise we would not have known anything about it so soon.

Absolutely right, and I've repped accordingly - thanks Mav.

Originally Posted by ikthius

I never knew about this option, and it was set as default to delete.

I want all my mail, even spam, as I will let my application deal with spam.

I don't want ntl to decide what to delete, and what not to delete, as it may not delete the correct things.

Agreed. Aside from the fact that one day in and the system is already giving too many false positives (including mails from it's own servers) it is NOT up to ntl to decide on what email I want to receive.

Irrespective of whether I delete spam messages before downloading or reading them, what ntl is doing is the equivalent of my postman throwing the loan and double glazing junk mail in the roadside bin before putting it through my letterbox.

One day I might just need some double glazing (and the loan to pay for it) - and besides it would be illegal for postie to do that.

So why do ntl think it's OK for them to do exactly the same? Does this breach some sort of rule/contract? I'm in the mood for a fight

[maverick]

Hello all,I am in work later this afternoon I wiill e.mail the relevant department and make them aware of this problem.

I will post back later with any info.

[PWS]

Havent ntl: been removing spam since November 2004.
Isnt this just a higher level of removal but this time giving the option to keep everything which wasnt there before?
There was no chioce before....now there is......

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by PWS

Havent ntl: been removing spam since November 2004.
Isnt this just a higher level of removal but this time giving the option to keep everything which wasnt there before?
There was no chioce before....now there is......

I'm not sure they have been removing it - but they have certainly been collating it. Every time I reported fresh spam to SpamCop ntl's name came up on the list that would get a message as "intermediary interested in the handling of spam" - so I presume that they have been teaching their spam filters what to look for....

....and then setting it to random

So does anyone know the legal score of purposefully deleting my emails without my permission? Data protection act maybe? Anyone?

[mikegrayy]

In the last couple of days i have recieved no email instead of the usual 20
spam messages
I think i have lost some wanted ones too
Is this becasue Ntl have introduced some new spam filters ?
how do i retrieve all my lost messages
__________________

it looks like i need to change my settings
im using pop3
i cant find my password to log onto web mail
you can get it emailed to you
it never arrives
is it bieng deleted as spam if so im in a catch 22 situation
how stupid are NTL

[eric@]

Originally Posted by mikegrayy

In the last couple of days i have recieved no email instead of the usual 20
spam messages
I think i have lost some wanted ones too
Is this becasue Ntl have introduced some new spam filters ?
how do i retrieve all my lost messages
__________________

it looks like i need to change my settings
im using pop3
i cant find my password to log onto web mail
you can get it emailed to you
it never arrives
is it bieng deleted as spam if so im in a catch 22 situation
how stupid are NTL

Not getting email replies from NTL is nothing to do with the new spam filter. They just don't reply. (At least not to me) Sent yet another request to them today but really do not expect an answer. I guess it must be Corporate Policy!

Originally Posted by eric@

Not getting email replies from NTL is nothing to do with the new spam filter. They just don't reply. (At least not to me) Sent yet another request to them today but really do not expect an answer. I guess it must be Corporate Policy!

I just tried the 'email my password' option and sure enough - no email. I have my spam setting at 'flag & forward', so it isn't being deleted

[maverick]

I'm not sure they have been removing it - but they have certainly been collating it. Every time I reported fresh spam to SpamCop ntl's name came up on the list that would get a message as "intermediary interested in the handling of spam" - so I presume that they have been teaching their spam filters what to look for....

....and then setting it to random

All the above is correct the spam filters have been running for some time at a low filtering setting for the spam server to recognise known or suspected spam the level of spam detection has now been raised.
Legitimate e.mails should not be getting deleted I would advise everyone for now to do as homealone has suggested in selecting the setting of the Spam filter to 'send to webmail spam folder for 7 days' .

Anyone who believes a legit e.mail has been deleted as spam contact tech support the more evidence there is the better.

I know this is not ideal and I am not defending the way NTL has actioned this in anyway.

It would have been better if a warning was given a week before the filtering was increased and set the option to not delete for 7 days as the default,the powers that be have been made aware of a possible issue.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by maverick

Legitimate e.mails should not be getting deleted I would advise everyone for now to do as homealone has suggested in selecting the setting of the Spam filter to 'send to webmail spam folder for 7 days' .

Spam filtering is supposed to make things easier. Altering the spam option to "send to webmail spam folder for 7 days" means that you have to check your email in the normal way and also check it again through webmail to see if messages have been accurately marked as spam. For myself I can't see that this new spam filtering system is going to be of any help.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by mikegrayy

how do i retrieve all my lost messages

I don't think you can Mike. All of the people I've spoken to today have ended up saying that (with varying degrees of politeness).

I have recieved a reply, which I will not go into detail about as it's a one to one email, from a senior individual in the ISP side. He ignored the part about getting my deleted mails back (among other things)...so I assume that it's not possible.

Originally Posted by maverick

Legitimate e.mails should not be getting deleted I would advise everyone for now to do as homealone has suggested in selecting the setting of the Spam filter to 'send to webmail spam folder for 7 days' .

Anyone who believes a legit e.mail has been deleted as spam contact tech support the more evidence there is the better.

Thanks for this good info Maverick. The problem with using user submitted data (such as SpamCop) is that I don't highlight emails that are legitimate, only ones that are not. Therefore by adopting the method they have, this system is already fundamentally flawed before it's begun and is likely to produce a far greater number of flase positives than a tagging of all mail system.

I don't have a problem with this, false positives are a way of life in spam filters of every kind. The problems are that there is no way of 'teaching' the system that it got it wrong and second is that it deletes things without asking or telling you. Even a digest once a week would be a good idea telling me the senders of blocked mails.

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Spam filtering is supposed to make things easier. Altering the spam option to "send to webmail spam folder for 7 days" means that you have to check your email in the normal way and also check it again through webmail to see if messages have been accurately marked as spam. For myself I can't see that this new spam filtering system is going to be of any help.

I agree completely. This is another ntl half-assed idea, which from what I can make out cost a bomb. It had the potential to be a great system, but becuase of poor implementation it's another white elephant. Did anyone see the episode of the Simpsons with the Monorail?

Personally I think they would have been better off doing a deal and buying every customer a copy of Mailwasher - which gets it right far more often it seems.

Anyway...moving forward here's what ntl should do IMHO (I should send them an invoice for consultancy for this gem of common sense):

1. Change the default setting NOW. Set it to either label all as SPAM or to no filtering.

2. Send an email to customers. They manage to send me their own marketing SPAM informing me of products I already have, so why not use that system to tell me how to use their spam filter?

3. And this is the biggie....THINK! Prior preparation prevents a poor performance.

Write this in GIANT LETTERS and stick it on your office walls. Using a tiny bit of of inteligence before flicking the switch will prevent a whole bunch of fallout afterwards. It doesn't take the a MENSA member to work out that people might want to know that you're going to delete their mails without asking. Duh.

4. Make the cheque for £1000 payable to..... The Common Sense Consultancy Co.

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Spam filtering is supposed to make things easier. Altering the spam option to "send to webmail spam folder for 7 days" means that you have to check your email in the normal way and also check it again through webmail to see if messages have been accurately marked as spam. For myself I can't see that this new spam filtering system is going to be of any help.

tagged as 'spam' and forwarded, as usual, will work, I am sure, I am getting very few messages that don't get caught, that way

I thought something had changed when I checked my email this morning to find only 2 messages instead of the normal 20 - 30.


If this filter is anything like the one used by Wanadoo, then it just doesn't work. Over 75% of legitamate email was being flagged as ***SPAM***. If Wanadoo had done the same as ntl & just started deleting suspected spam without telling me, I would have lost a lot of wanted emails before realising!

It's not as if ntl had accidentally chosen the wrong option, as they are actually boasting that they are deleting suspect spam!

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by XFS03

It's not as if ntl had accidentally chosen the wrong option, as they are actually boasting that they are deleting suspect spam!

I know and the line from them is that "no filter system is 100% perfect".

True enough but no sane thinking company would implement a system that deletes people's emails without at least letting them know first. Someone's head at ntl needs to roll for this situation. But of course ntl's style is to reward faliure.

The worst thing is, of course, that most of ntl's customers still have no idea that this is going on. They have all probably lost legitimate email over the last 24 hours and becuase of ntl's stupidity and arrogance they have no clue.

If anyone reading this knows people on ntl's email, send them a link to this thread so they can make an informed decision as to how to let them process their messages properly.

[jkthorp]

I'm glad i looked into this! just noticed a lack of emails today and yesterday then googled and found the forum!

surely customers should have been emailed before the switch on (so they'd still get thru ) and told them to set their preferences so no email would be lost.

still, i think they should be commended for finally doing something about it.

the auto deletion was probably to ease the load on their servers!

thanks to everyone for the info!

[darren]

I noticed my spam Outlook Junk Email folder was completely empty today so I looged into webmail and set it to tag instead, who knows whats been deleted from my inbox already. I don't use ntls email servers much anymore after they blocked my main email acount for a week.