Coop Bars Christian Voice For Anti-Homosexual Views

Originally Posted by Russ D

Interesting...you surprise me.

Why? Have a look at the website. If its members don't understand what CV stands for then why are they members?

[Russ]

You're the one who mentioned the subject of them not understanding the CV ethos, not me.

[punky]

If someone is a member of the BNP, but doesn't agree with them 100% (whom probably most of them don't), then does that make it alright? You are either part of it, or you aren't.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by punky

If someone is a member of the BNP, but doesn't agree with them 100% (whom probably most of them don't), then does that make it alright? You are either part of it, or you aren't.

I'm not saying it's alright, you should know better than that. And I disagree that "you're either part of it or you aren't". I'm sure there are lots of people who agree with the BNP's principles and detest the violence and knuckle-draggers, which of course is off-topic.

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by andyl

Where I believe the Co-op is on firm ground is the difficulty gay members of staff may have serving a client so deeply homophobic. As a comparison, a black person serving a Ku Klux Klan member?

Exactly. I wasn't saying CV members had acted in such a way, just that the Co-Op would have to consider the possibility that they could act that way to one of their employees, given the statements CV made.
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Originally Posted by punky

As many probably know, I spend a lot of time out in Florida. There still are too many dumbarses walking around with confederate crap on themselves. I was standing at the counter of a certain fast food establishment, waiting for a special order to be cooked, so I let the line through. The guy behind me was a redneck with a confederate t-shirt and confederate bandana. You would have thought the civil war was still on. The redneck was very rude and disrespectful to the black server, but he did nothing, said nothing served him and that was that. I said to the black guy: "You really have to put up with s**t?", he just sort of shrugged and said it didn't bother him.

That black guy was great. You can't stop people being racist, but you can deny them the pleasure of hate by rising above it. The same applies for sexuality issues.

I suppose saying that it did bother him would be admitting victory for the bigots. I bet it does bother him though

But yes, I've found the way to deal with people who are bigoted - or just rude - towards me is to treat them with excessive politeless and courtesy, to show the difference between us
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Originally Posted by Russ D

I'm not saying it's alright, you should know better than that. And I disagree that "you're either part of it or you aren't". I'm sure there are lots of people who agree with the BNP's principles and detest the violence and knuckle-draggers, which of course is off-topic.

Perhaps, but they wouldn't join the BNP then would they?

[Russ]

Why not? It's a way of showing support.

Originally Posted by Russ D

You're the one who mentioned the subject of them not understanding the CV ethos, not me.

I said that if they didn't understand what CV stood for then why be members. Not sure if you're being wilfully obtuse on this thread or not Russ The comparisons you've drawn have, at times, bordered on the totally nonsensical!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andyl

I said that if they didn't understand what CV stood for then why be members. Not sure if you're being wilfully obtuse on this thread or not Russ The comparisons you've drawn have, at times, bordered on the totally nonsensical!

I just don't see why you're suggesting the possibility that they may not understand the CV 'way' - it's certainly not anything I've brought up.

And with your last line, much the same could be said about yours too!

Originally Posted by Russ D

I just don't see why you're suggesting the possibility that they may not understand the CV 'way' - it's certainly not anything I've brought up.

I'm suggesting they'd have to be as thick as B&Qs entire plank collection not to realise how central homophobia is the CV. Assuming they are not, then they support that homophobia.

And with your last line, much the same could be said about yours too!

I refer the honourable gentleman to comparisons to criminals and football teams!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andyl

I'm suggesting they'd have to be as thick as B&Qs entire plank collection not to realise how central homophobia is the CV. Assuming they are not, then they support that homophobia.

I really thought you were more intelligent than that - let me explain.

The people who go to that church may not agree with everything it stands for. Perhaps it's the closest church, maybe their relatives go. There are plenty of reasons why they might not agree with everything CV stands for. Nothing to do with not understanding it, as you can now see.

Originally Posted by andyl

I refer the honourable gentleman to comparisons to criminals and football teams!

I mean, if you're going to be deliberately cynical about it, why should I give you examples at all?

Originally Posted by Russ D

I really thought you were more intelligent than that - let me explain.

The people who go to that church may not agree with everything it stands for. Perhaps it's the closest church, maybe their relatives go. There are plenty of reasons why they might not agree with everything CV stands for. Nothing to do with not understanding it, as you can now see.

And I thought you were less obtuse than that. Homophobia - homosexuality being an 'abomination' - is one of CV's central messages, they have been actively campaigning as such, so the assumption that its members concur with is is based on a pretty sound premise.



I mean, if you're going to be deliberately cynical about it, why should I give you examples at all?[/QUOTE] I'm just pointing out that some of the comparisons you have drawn have, er, lacked rigour. Suggesting a United fan would be more upset to be served by an Arsenal fan, than a gay person serving someone who thinks they are abominal.

The quality of your debating skills on this particular thread have meant the issues get blurred, ignored or confused. So. on that note, I'm outta here.

[Russ]

That's a relief

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Why not? It's a way of showing support.

What, their support for the violence and knuckle-draggers?

[Russ]

No, their political views and ideals and you know it.

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by Russ D

No, their political views and ideals and you know it.

What 'I know' is that anyone who joins the BNP supports their actions.

Anyway, we're waaaayy off topic now. Let's not mention the BNP again.