Coop Bars Christian Voice For Anti-Homosexual Views

[Russ]

We have been criticising homosexual rights

Change 'homosexual' to 'criminal' and that gives it a different perspective to many people. I'm not equating homosexuality to breaking the law but it shows how people's views differ when you change the section of society in question.

Originally Posted by allieyoung666

I think the Co-op has done right and good on them, we are not in the dark ages anymore and people should be able to express their sexuality quite freely with out fear of being gay bashed.

Nobody has said anything about 'gay bashing'.

Originally Posted by andyl

They could certainly be construed as harassing gay people; "The letter [from CV to constabularies] complained about policemen and women marching in full uniform in the London Gay Pride March 26/07/2003 and urged Chief Constables to stop actively recruiting homosexuals."

Whereas I'd stop short of calling that harrassment, I'd agree that it's certainly unhelpful behaviour. Victims of gay-hate crime may well open up more ( ) to a like-minded officer.

Originally Posted by allieyoung666

It makes me sick and suppose these people are perfect and have never ever done anything wrong?

No-one has ever suggested they are perfect.

Originally Posted by Graham

Err, banks are businesses and are free to choose who can or cannot have an account with them. They don't have to justify their reasoning.

Absolutely - however they leave themselves wide open to accusations of hypocrasy and pandering to the pc-brigade. Whether or not this bothers them is another matter of course.

Not all Islamic groups hold to the strict interpretation of the Koran, just as many Christian groups don't consider homosexuality to be an abomination either.

Originally Posted by Graham

Ah, now this puts a slightly different complexion on matters. If they want to object to homosexuality, that's their business, but when they say that others should be *denied* rights because *they* don't like it, that's another matter entirely.

I don't want to make a habit of this but again I agree with Graham

Originally Posted by orangebird

What a bunch of hypoctrical ignoramuses the CV are. Good on the Co-op AFAIC

I think in your haste to take sides against the religious group in this story, you may have chosen the wrong wording - a group which stands up for what it believes is hardly hypocritical. Allowing gays in to their ranks then speak out against them, now that would be hypocritical.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Change 'homosexual' to 'criminal' and that gives it a different perspective to many people. I'm not equating homosexuality to breaking the law but it shows how people's views differ when you change the section of society in question.



Nobody has said anything about 'gay bashing'.




Whereas I'd stop short of calling that harrassment, I'd agree that it's certainly unhelpful behaviour. Victims of gay-hate crime may well open up more ( ) to a like-minded officer.



No-one has ever suggested they are perfect.



Absolutely - however they leave themselves wide open to accusations of hypocrasy and pandering to the pc-brigade. Whether or not this bothers them is another matter of course.







I don't want to make a habit of this but again I agree with Graham



I think in your haste to take sides against the religious group in this story, you may have chosen the wrong wording - a group which stands up for what it believes is hardly hypocritical. Allowing gays in to their ranks then speak out against them, now that would be hypocritical.

The hyposcray I stated comes from this - I thought Christianity was all about forgiveness and tolerance. With reference to their stance on gays, I see neither.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Absolutely - however they leave themselves wide open to accusations of hypocrasy and pandering to the pc-brigade. Whether or not this bothers them is another matter of course.

When it suits, eh?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by orangebird

The hyposcray I stated comes from this - I thought Christianity was all about forgiveness and tolerance. With reference to their stance on gays, I see neither.

Then you may need to understand Christianity more. Yes Christians are to show forgiveness and I'm sure the organisation in question would not be against any homosexual who wanted to join them and showed repentance for their 'sin' (note: I am not trying to get you to agree that it IS a sin but if for a moment you can see this from a Biblical perspective). In the same way I'm sure they would not turn away an ex-thief.

As for tolerance I don't know enough about the CV to know their true stance but I don't see anything wrong in speaking out against that which you disagree with. As I've said, being a Christian does mean being a doormat and throwing all your principles out of the window.

Originally Posted by orangebird

When it suits, eh?

Not sure what you're implying there.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Then you may need to understand Christianity more. Yes Christians are to show forgiveness and I'm sure the organisation in question would not be against any homosexual who wanted to join them and showed repentance for their 'sin' (note: I am not trying to get you to agree that it IS a sin but if for a moment you can see this from a Biblical perspective). In the same way I'm sure they would not turn away an ex-thief.

As for tolerance I don't know enough about the CV to know their true stance but I don't see anything wrong in speaking out against that which you disagree with. As I've said, being a Christian does mean being a doormat and throwing all your principles out of the window.

I'm sure you meant 'doesn't'...

Not sure what you're implying there.

You say the Co-op are leaving themselves wide open as hypocrits - You could say the same for the CV.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I'm sure you meant 'doesn't'...

Yes - that's what I meant

Originally Posted by orangebird

You say the Co-op are leaving themselves wide open as hypocrits - You could say the same for the CV.

Not really, as the CV stance has been made clear from the start, unless you know something about them that I don't? I admit I haven't fully read their ethos yet.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Then you may need to understand Christianity more. Yes Christians are to show forgiveness and I'm sure the organisation in question would not be against any homosexual who wanted to join them and showed repentance for their 'sin' (note: I am not trying to get you to agree that it IS a sin but if for a moment you can see this from a Biblical perspective). In the same way I'm sure they would not turn away an ex-thief.

Can we cut the comparisons of gay people with criminals Russ, maybe you could try and explain your point without comparing us at all? I find it rather distasteful.

On a side note I bank with the Co-op and they my be ethical on big issues like this but not on things like opening proper current accounts for people with poor credit history (but great credit currently). Maybe a look at their own views on customers would be beneficial as well as looking at their customers views on others.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Can we cut the comparisons of gay people with criminals Russ, maybe you could try and explain your point without comparing us at all? I find it rather distasteful.

Read all my comments in this thread please. I'm using it as a point of reference so people can compare the situation with people in society whose lifestyle they may disagree with. I've never once said homosexuals are criminals and would never ever do so unless of course they broke a law.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Read all my comments in this thread please.

I'm sure he has Russ. Whatever else you've posted, the following quote is pretty absurd, and distasteful:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Change 'homosexual' to 'criminal' and that gives it a different perspective to many people. I'm not equating homosexuality to breaking the law but it shows how people's views differ when you change the section of society in question.

I should bloody well hope peoples views do differ bewteen the two.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I should bloody well hope peoples views do differ bewteen the two.

Me too and I don't see why it's obsurd - I used it as an example as to how the CV sees homosexuals. If they view them as criminals then yes, they're out of order and I'd hope people would resist any attempt at pushing that view on the masses. However there are many who campaign for criminal's rights and equally many speak out against them - are they intolerant?

Can I just make it plainly clear that I'm not saying I believe homosexuality is/should be illegal and if this is the view of CV (as it appears to be) then I certainly disagree with them.

I think I understand what you mean Russ but I can see why it's stoked controversy. Yes people have different views and that informs their world view but I'm not sure suggesting replacing 'homosexual' with 'criminal' was very diplomatic!

Off topic, but criminals have rights too

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andyl

I think I understand what you mean Russ but I can see why it's stoked controversy. Yes people have different views and that informs their world view but I'm not sure suggesting replacing 'homosexual' with 'criminal' was very diplomatic!

Off topic, but criminals have rights too

Yes they do but that's not the discussion here

Again I wasn't suggesting homosexuality is on par with crime and I apologise if anyone took that to be what I meant however I wanted to use an example which everyone would recognise.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Read all my comments in this thread please. I'm using it as a point of reference so people can compare the situation with people in society whose lifestyle they may disagree with.

I have Russ, and i still say please stop the comparisons, it's not nice being compared with a criminal. Can you not get your point across without comparing gay people to X, Y or Z?
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

Me too and I don't see why it's obsurd - I used it as an example as to how the CV sees homosexuals. If they view them as criminals then yes, they're out of order and I'd hope people would resist any attempt at pushing that view on the masses. However there are many who campaign for criminal's rights and equally many speak out against them - are they intolerant?

No, because Criminals have done something wrong (gays haven't), and part of their punishment is withdrawal of some of their rights. How else do we punish people other then forcing them to do community service or lock them up?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I have Russ, and i still say please stop the comparisons, it's not nice being compared with a criminal. Can you not get your point across without comparing gay people to X, Y or Z?

I don't think Russ was comparing homosexuals to criminals m8 (that's not how I read it).

I think he was just trying to show that the 'genre' is not relevant, you could have inserted any group instead of criminals.

Originally Posted by Shaun

No, because Criminals have done something wrong (gays haven't), and part of their punishment is withdrawal of some of their rights. How else do we punish people other then forcing them to do community service or lock them up?

I agree that gays have done nothing wrong but I think Russ's point is that CV perceive them as doing wrong and, therefore, in their (to my mind warped) world view promotion of 'rights' is also wrong.

I'm not sure what they mean by promoting 'rights'. Having equal opportunities policies is not the same as promoting rights so having a pop at the Police is totally out of order. Gay police men and women going on the Pride march is no doubt promotion to CV - I see it more as protection of rights.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I have Russ, and i still say please stop the comparisons, it's not nice being compared with a criminal. Can you not get your point across without comparing gay people to X, Y or Z?

Thanks to neil for putting it well - I just used another section of society that people would identify with

Originally Posted by Shaun

No, because Criminals have done something wrong (gays haven't), and part of their punishment is withdrawal of some of their rights. How else do we punish people other then forcing them to do community service or lock them up?

Yes I know they have done nothing wrong in your eyes (and also in the eyes of just about everyone else, myself included) but the CV obviously do not subscribe to the same kind of 'laws' that you and I do, therefore their views differ which of course they're entitled to. At the same time, a person or group cannot IMO have such extreme views without getting a backlash such as the general puplic perception of them and the resultant actions of the Co-op.