11 years for rape

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

He will probably be ostracised and abused while in jail (thats a shame) so he probably won't learn anything more than self preservation tactics...............unless he hooks up with other paedophiles--then he will become a better paedophile (this does happen)

yep i know but the thing is we cant kill them.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

They can repent all they want but they willl continue to get the urges. I could repent about my lust for attractive women till the cows come home.........it still won't make me fancy them any less.........

i dont dispute that one bit, but what punishment fits this crime in particular....thats the thing im concerned about because letting them out and as you said it will just allow them to reoffend.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

He will probably be ostracised and abused while in jail (thats a shame) so he probably won't learn anything more than self preservation tactics...............unless he hooks up with other paedophiles--then he will become a better paedophile (this does happen)

very true...... i didn't think of that but then i don't have the mind of a criminal (not saying you have either rammy)

[Jules]

Saw this on the news tonight the baby who is also an innocent victim of this is in care....how do you explain to some one why they were put in to care because of the reasons this baby was

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by whyme38

Saw this on the news tonight the baby who is also an innocent victim of this is in care....how do you explain to some one why they were put in to care because of the reasons this baby was

You don't until they are old enough and emotionally strong enough to cope with it

[Jules]

What a thing to be told though

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Bex

very true...... i didn't think of that but then i don't have the mind of a criminal (not saying you have either rammy)

I talk to social workers about this stuff
__________________

Originally Posted by kronas

yep i know but the thing is we cant kill them.



i dont dispute that one bit, but what punishment fits this crime in particular....thats the thing im concerned about because letting them out and as you said it will just allow them to reoffend.

The trouble with the death penalty is that it's a bit final (with respect to miscarriages of justice).........so that leaves life (meaning life) imprisonment........but I'm loath to allow my tax money go towards that.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by whyme38

Saw this on the news tonight the baby who is also an innocent victim of this is in care....how do you explain to some one why they were put in to care because of the reasons this baby was

it's got to be one of the hardest things to hear. sadly.

The trouble with the death penalty is that it's a bit final (with respect to miscarriages of justice).........so that leaves life (meaning life) imprisonment........but I'm loath to allow my tax money go towards that.

that was one of the reasons, i believe, that the death penalty was abolished in this country.
this is the problem though isn't it, the tax payers money pays for these people to live, eat etc, and as a previous thread showed get internet access... when the money would be just as well used towards healthcare, more policing, education.
it's a catch 22 situation unfortunately

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Bex

sorry graham but we are entitled to post our opinions.
the reason i have not entered into a debate with regards to this subject because i personally feel it is too emotive.

Which was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Let me just recap what went before that post:

Originally Posted by Various posters

I hope he gets what's coming to him

a cheaper alternative would be two bricks and a rubber band

He really needs a cell with Bubba the soap merchant.

Some people just need thier human rights being abolished....

I'm not bothered about his human rights.

we could ship them all off like we did to Australia.Then drop a bomb on it.

Plenty of emotive content, but very little in the way of reasonable debate.

Fine, people have opinions on it, that's up to them, but posting stuff like that doesn't really help much, does it?

what is there to really debate about this subject?

Given the above comments, clearly absolutely nothing. There again, going by other threads, some people would seemingly be perfectly happy if this had never even *gone* to court and he had simply been strung up without even benefit of a trial.

what should happen to the guy?

That is certainly something that *should* be debated.

you make comments and then post things such as this:

which is not a reasoned response.

In comparison to the other comments I cited above it is perfectly reasoned and indeed reasonable.

About some situations there is nothing that you can say.All words seem inadequate or trite.I can't think of anything I might utter that wouldn't be mere hyperbole.


Well we can but trust to the law to try and deal with cases like this.Otherwise I don't see how you prevent such cases from occuring in the future.We can't put such people in prison until they are found guilty and we have no real fool proof method of detecting them and preventing them from acting on their impulses.Even if we did we would have to be very careful not to abrogate their rights.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Simon M

The FACTS of this are:

• He planned this
• He has admitted it
• He got her pregnant

Justice has been dealt on the basis of our woefully inadequate judicial system.

The man will go to Jail for 11 years.

Apart from the "woefully inadeqate" comment which is only an opinion, yes, that's correct.

Now on the basis that we can't argue with the facts, then I'm assuming your previous comments are in reaction to the comments made outside of that scope.

• He will never do the 11 years
• He will be harmed whilst inside
• He should be chemically castrated
• etc

Correct.

Now ... this is where peoples opinions will really come out. This was a terrible crime, particularly as the victim was only 12. But please remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how "way off base" you may believe it to be.

I don't deny anyone has the right to have an opinion, but if we're going to discuss and debate the subject there's little purpose to emotive responses such as those you list above as they add nothing constructive.

Of course i will not condone any violence toward the individual, I can at the same time understand the feeling being voiced by others here.

We are not a vigilante squad, and if we feel that justice has NOT been done, then letters to the MP's etc are the way to go.

Pardon my cynical snort at this point. I think there are others in this thread who would not necessarily agree with you.

Harming the accused would not solve the overall problems with the system.

I agree. Others have different "opinions".

However, on the basis that many of us, including yourself, believe that the current system does not accurately serve a decent punishment for the associated crime, surely we are allow to speculate as to what we would like see done.

And I have no problem with that *if* they are presented in a reasoned and rational manner instead of "string him up" which is not conducive to sensible debate. (And before anyone tries to jump on that, this is not my "opinion", that's the rules of these forums!)

Remember tolerance with each other, be respectful of other peoples views.

I can tolerate a lot of things but having people (and this isn't directed personally at you or anyone) telling *me* to stick to the rules whilst, at the same time, posting inflammatory and emotive comments is not one of them.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Graham

Apart from the "woefully inadeqate" comment which is only an opinion, yes, that's correct.

Thanks

Correct.

and again

I don't deny anyone has the right to have an opinion, but if we're going to discuss and debate the subject there's little purpose to emotive responses such as those you list above as they add nothing constructive.

That depends on your point of view. Yes they can be emotive and you may not agree with them, but surely thats the basis for debate.

You can't argue with the facts, you can only speculate using them as the base.

Peoples reactions will differ, depending on their own circumstances and experiences. Some will feel frustration, others anger. None of these can be belittled on this medium, as it is faceless, and is not conducive for emotional debate.

Pardon my cynical snort at this point. I think there are others in this thread who would not necessarily agree with you.

More than likely

I agree. Others have different "opinions".

Good

And I have no problem with that *if* they are presented in a reasoned and rational manner instead of "string him up" which is not conducive to sensible debate. (And before anyone tries to jump on that, this is not my "opinion", that's the rules of these forums!)

No it isn't, but it is a common enough reaction. THe questions that results from that type of comment are "why do they say that", "What has prompted that reaction". By understanding the circumstances surrounding those comment, then a reasoned debate can ensue.

I can tolerate a lot of things but having people (and this isn't directed personally at you or anyone) telling *me* to stick to the rules whilst, at the same time, posting inflammatory and emotive comments is not one of them.

I've not seen anything particularly inflammatory here as yet. Yes there are things I may not agree with, but at the same time I haven't as yet explored the reasoning behind some of the "knee Jerk" reactions we have seen.

Castrate him and keep him in prison for at least 25 years.

And what will this achieve? Well, in particuler to graham, it will certainly be a punishment that fits the crime, ok I understand he wouldnt serve 25 years, perhaps instead of castration we should consider chemical impotence. That way we are protecting the public even when he is let out.

We could take it further, he could have a choice life meaning a minimum of 25 years in prison, then havging to report to police every evening for the rest of his life, or he could be made impotent (therefor unable to commit rape again) and serve a lesser sentence.

The issue here is that most people and myself included feel that 11 years isnt punishment at face value, but the people that you have critiscised have raised some very valid points, that unless he is kept in solitary he will be attacked in prison, and its highly likely he will be killed or maimed.
I for one cant feel an sorrow about this, the guy had a choice, dont rape a 12 year old girl and stay out of prison, or rape her and go to jail. His future was decided by his own actions.

The only thing certain in this is that the guy is a sick person and should either be given a longer sentence or rehabilitated in a way in which he poses no further threat to any women (what ever that may be).

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Castrate him and keep him in prison for at least 25 years.

An option I think many would support.

And what will this achieve? Well, in particuler to graham, it will certainly be a punishment that fits the crime, ok I understand he wouldnt serve 25 years, perhaps instead of castration we should consider chemical impotence. That way we are protecting the public even when he is let out.

Impotence does not stop someone raping again ...

We could take it further, he could have a choice life meaning a minimum of 25 years in prison, then havging to report to police every evening for the rest of his life, or he could be made impotent (therefor unable to commit rape again) and serve a lesser sentence.

as above..

The issue here is that most people and myself included feel that 11 years isnt punishment at face value, but the people that you have critiscised have raised some very valid points, that unless he is kept in solitary he will be attacked in prison, and its highly likely he will be killed or maimed.
I for one cant feel an sorrow about this, the guy had a choice, dont rape a 12 year old girl and stay out of prison, or rape her and go to jail. His future was decided by his own actions.

My feelings too

The only thing certain in this is that the guy is a sick person and should either be given a longer sentence or rehabilitated in a way in which he poses no further threat to any women (what ever that may be).

The question is how ...

Originally Posted by Simon M

The question is how ...

If I had the answer to that matey I would be a very popular person.

As for impotence if a guy cannot get aroused then it would be very difficult to commit rape........I dont say impossible as I am sure people can give a few different ways in which it could be done and I dont really wanna go into details.

Could it be proven that he was mentally ill, detain him under the metnal health act, that way he is more likely to be protected from others and receive any help he may need.

Personally I'd like to see him strung up and castrated without anaesthetic, and publically too, but thats just way too much for many people here, I however can be pretty twisted towards this kind of thing. Rationally though medication and councilling for the offender really may be the way forward, however he will not receive this in prison.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

If I had the answer to that matey I would be a very popular person.

You mean you're not already

As for impotence if a guy cannot get aroused then it would be very difficult to commit rape........I dont say impossible as I am sure people can give a few different ways in which it could be done and I dont really wanna go into details.

Me either, however impotence isn't the issue, more the definition of rape.

Could it be proven that he was mentally ill, detain him under the metnal health act, that way he is more likely to be protected from others and receive any help he may need.

Without being released back into the community ?

Personally I'd like to see him strung up and castrated without anaesthetic, and publically too, but thats just way too much for many people here, I however can be pretty twisted towards this kind of thing. Rationally though medication and councilling for the offender really may be the way forward, however he will not receive this in prison.

You like to watch this kind of thing
Not belittling you reply in any way, I can sympathise with your reaction for more reasons that I care to go into, and I agree prison is not going to be the place to get the medication he may need.