Litigation fears start to bite

Paul K · 10-06-2005, 11:54

BBC

Quote:

A woman had to wait nearly two hours for a police helicopter to take her to hospital after paramedics refused to carry her 200 yards on a stretcher.
Mandy George, from Sevenoaks in Kent, was riding her horse in West Kingsdown when she fell, injuring her right leg.
An ambulance was called but she was told a stretcher could not be used due to the remoteness of the area, despite the offer of help from passers-by.
Kent Ambulance Trust is investigating, but said it had rules on lifting.
A statement said it was concerned Mrs George had been dissatisfied with the service, and all complaints were taken very seriously.

Nice of her to say she wouldn't have sued but unfortunately what she says prior to being dropped might be different to her thoughts afterwards

Maybe it's time for ambulance crews to ask patients to sign waivers before they make any attempt at treatment or transport

Gareth · 10-06-2005, 12:08

So, anyone else reckon she's a bit on the large side...?

Mr_love_monkey · 10-06-2005, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

So, anyone else reckon she's a bit on the large side...?

surely if that was the case, they could have just rolled her??

10-06-2005, 12:16

Note it's her that suggests she was a victim of fear of litigation, not the NHS Trust It may well be the paramedics felt she might have a spinal injury and a long stretcher journey may not have been advisable.

allieyoung666 · 10-06-2005, 12:31

there are lots of things that have to be put in proscpective, such as location, ladies height, weight and build, they must have had to do a risk assessment on the spot and have come to conclusion that it isnt suitable location to lift this woman and have declined. I dont blame them really as your back is precious, We refused a couple of month ago to lift a guy because he was 37 stone and constipated, we had to get special equipment in and we even had to hire a special hoist as the hospitial hoists only go to 30 stone.

basa · 10-06-2005, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by allieyoung666

<snip> ............and constipated, ........<snip>

Erm...I have to ask how was this relevant ????

Mal · 10-06-2005, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

Erm...I have to ask how as this relevant ????

Just that there would be a lot of it in there

MovedGoalPosts · 10-06-2005, 12:58

A difficult subject to address. The HSE these days suggest the 20Kg is the maximum safe repetetive single person lifting weight. So many items in the building industry are sized to suit this. If you go to a UK airport, chances are you will fiind, even if you go for excess baggage allowances, your maximum individual luggage size is 32Kg. Again this is health and safety thing, no doubt related to how much two persons in combination can safely move regularly.

Now comes the problem. An average human weighs what 70kg for a thin man. And the population is getting bigger. At 16 stone, I equate to 100Kg. Now it might just be deemed acceptable for brief lifts of people onto or of stretchers. but it's still asking a lot of a two man crew. If the stretcher has to go any distance, that's why it has wheels, not just to make life easier, but also to make it safer for all concerned. It's no good if the rescuer themselves get injured and have to be rescued. If as in this case the terrain is rough someone has to assess if it is safe and practical, for casualty and rescuers, with the resources present, to transport a casualty. I suspect common sense has to be applied, but there comes a point at whcih someone will be entitled to draw the line, and require more help.

paulyoung666 · 10-06-2005, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

Erm...I have to ask how was this relevant ????

you chose to , you didnt have to

, anyway , personally i reckon they did the right thing , the situation would have been far worse if the ambulance crew damaged their backs as well

10-06-2005, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Nice of her to say she wouldn't have sued but unfortunately what she says prior to being dropped might be different to her thoughts afterwards

Although it is quite possible that the thought had been put in her head by the interviewer, it does show that the potential for litigation is an issue in public (and volutary) services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Maybe it's time for ambulance crews to ask patients to sign waivers before they make any attempt at treatment or transport

Or to be exempt - after all, in many cases the patient would be unfit to sign such a waiver. (So even getting a waiver off the patient in distress would probably be thrown out in court!)

The litiginousness of our society is a real problem - what concerns me most is not that people bring these silly cases, but that the courts find in their favour! And it's that which is fuelling the whole thing.

If people could expect common sense to prevail in court, then it might also prevail outside of it.

zoombini · 10-06-2005, 13:16

There were many other passers by that also offered to help carry her.

Ergo, the amount klifted by each would have been far less.

Heck, she could even have been chucked over her horse & taken to the ambulance. :-)

Paul K · 10-06-2005, 13:26

I don't think this situation was a lot to do with weight but more to do with the enviroment they were having to navigate.

It looks like some form of narrow gravel track/ path and the crew would not have been able to guarantee getting the injured woman back to the ambulance for treatment without hitch. If someone had slipped, lost there footing, tripped etc then the risk to the patient would have been magnified and who would have been found at fault if the stretcher had been dropped?

allieyoung666 · 10-06-2005, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

Erm...I have to ask how was this relevant ????

I should have explained a bit further sorry, which ever way we tried to move him [7 of us in a tiny room] he moaned that it was hurting his tummy and plus he had some strange discharge comming from there in any place and we did not want it on us as we did not know what it was. He kept saying drag lift me which is a no no as I am 30 with a knackered back as it is and it is an illegal lift in the nursing profession. So you have to watch what you are doing whatever you, thanks to bleedin HSE. Oh I forgot to mention I had just given the guy a barium enemia!
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

I don't think this situation was a lot to do with weight but more to do with the enviroment they were having to navigate.

It looks like some form of narrow gravel track/ path and the crew would not have been able to guarantee getting the injured woman back to the ambulance for treatment without hitch. If someone had slipped, lost there footing, tripped etc then the risk to the patient would have been magnified and who would have been found at fault if the stretcher had been dropped?

I would not have even attempted to move her if that was the case, the strechers are made of alloy so all they would have to do is a big rock or a pot hole and even more trouble as certain makes of ferno strechers are known to facture and even snap if used in locations such as this. NICE highlighted the problem about 2 yrs ago but it was up to indvidual ambulance trusts what they did regarding the problem , nice if you are on one sorry it was NICE it was the MDA.

BladeMaster · 10-06-2005, 17:10

A victim of the increasing level of litigation in this country? Possibly but not necessarily. However, it wouldn't even be in question if the American blame and claim culture wasn't seeping into everything in this country. Our courts keep on ruling in favour of the claimant and for excessively large sums of money, which is why more and more people look to sue all the time.